LPG

Fortunately for the free world, GWB has a use-by date which expires in a
couple of years years.. pity Bonsai and the smirking Chickenman don't.

Nev..
'04 CBR1100XX

 

Yeah so why bother paying us for the conversions; why not just charge us
less petrol excise instead?

 

That won't reduce our dependence on petrol.

It's obvious when you think about it so take a few minutes.

 

Well, our last choice was between a known lier and a known thug. :-(

regards,
CrazyCam

 

Errr....... Errrr...... Ummm..... Sorry Stephen, I'm going to have to ask.
How does excise makes us less dependent on petrol? I thought it meant we had
to buy less beer, no flowers for the missus, less food for the kids. It
makes the gov't dependent on us buying petrol.

Theo

 

Wrong question.

If I get a lump sum to convert I reduce my dependence on petrol.

Lower excise puts a few pennies back in my pocket; it doesn't encourage
conversion.

See what a little thought can do?

 

Wrong question.

Where do you think the lump sum came from? And the ongoing loss of excise
and GST? Your pocket! Your roads? Your health care? Your kids education? It
obviously can't come from petrol excise. I'll bet it doesn't come from
Defence spending.

What do you think the Gov't would do if everyone changed to LPG and stopped
buying petrol?

Theo

 

Much the same as they're gonna do anyway when it runs out.

 

More tax?

Please attempt the other questions?

Theo

 

<chortle> You seriously think Johnny gives a shit about that ?

The real answer Clem is dollars and re-election.

At 2 grand a pop, even if EVERY car on the road took it up, it will
still only cost him the same as about 10 days worth of petrol excise(1)
and we all know the vast majority of car owners AREN'T going to take it
up - only those who have thirsty vehicles with large amounts of storage
space for an LPG tank will. So he drops what, $20M on this, absolute
tops. He neutralises THE biggest issue that will stop him getting
re-elected (given it's hurting most the middle income outer suburban
voters he won off labor).

Makes perfect sense to me, the only thing that I don't get is the
timing. I wouldn't have done it any sooner than 12 months nor any less
than 4 months before an election otherwise people will forget, gratitude
fades fast. Which implies an election in (at latest) late 07

Yes, yes it is. Your mistake Stephen is you're thinking about the best
interests of Australia and it's citizens, as opposed to thinking like a
Howard minion.

JL
(1)no I haven't checked the exact dollars, anyone interested enough to
bother ?

 

Not true Theo, although it's not particularly intuitive. Excise does
indirectly reduce our dependence on petrol, the reason being that as
(relatively) rational human beings we supposedly ration our limited
resource of money across the unlimited things we wanted. Hence the more
expensive petrol is the more likely we are to substitute it for other
things - so rational behaviour is then then to use the car less, or
substitute a more cost effective vehicle (push bike, smaller car, diesel
or LPG fuel etc). The net result of high fuel excises is to encourage us
to not use petrol and to use other methods of achieving the same benefit
to our lives. The only gotcha is some of the substitutes are still
petroleum based (ie diesel) so you also have to mix in reasons to use
non - petroleum products (ie ethanol for example), if you want to reduce
our dependence on crude oil.

JL

 

LPG = "Liquid Petroleum Gas" - still a crude oil byproduct - it's a band
aid not a fix to our crude oil dependence. It's no better than a subsidy
to convert to a diesel car, doesn't fix the problem (unless they start
making bio diesel readily available)

Being a patronising git just makes people not listen to your point. Not
helpful.

JL

 

The question was how does LPG conversion reduce our dependence on petrol.

If you still don't know I can't help you.

 

Actally in any country you still have a choice , it's just the concequences
that vary.
wee Johnnie Howard however only listens to George, and the only thing he
rides is the free world.

Capt. A. L.

 

You're right. Except that the L stands for liquefied.

You're right. Again.

 

JL wrote:

Can cars running on LPG use LNG (natural gas)? We have a lot more of
that in Australia.

It's no better than a subsidy

So ironic that the inventor designed the diesel engine to run on almost
any fuel.

 

Usually called CNG isn't it ? Don't think so but don't know for sure.

JL

 

In aus.motorcycles on Thu, 24 Aug 2006 10:30:59 +1000

This is theory... article in the Herald today says that M2 and M7
usage isn't dropping, and that people are saying they'll drop other
expenditure so they can keep the car going.

I think there is some substitution to smaller cars happening, but how
much can most people really do?

Going to get even more interesting when people get to choose to sit in
the Epping Rd carpark for free or the Lane Cove Tunnel one for $2.50.
Same number of lanes overall, just one choice chokes you on fumes.

How high will petrol have to go before people make a major shift from
cars, and how will they achieve that shift given the massive car
dependence woven into society?

I'm damn glad I live close enough to work to take the pushbike.

Zebee

 

In aus.motorcycles on Thu, 24 Aug 2006 13:37:20 +1000

I wonder what form said fallout will take.

What changes can people make? Car pool to train stations for example?
Cycle/scooter to same? Neighbourhood child activities rather than
long trips to same?

The run to work doesn't need a big car, ferrying the kids about might
have to change - they cycle, they carpool, what changes can be made?

Zebee

 

Change where you live, change how you live, change how you get to work.
People will respond to the stimuli, exactly what they will do will
depend on their personal preferences and values - some people will give
up on owning a house in the far 'burbs and choose to rent closer and
have no car. Some will value home ownership so highly they will accept
any privation in order to maintain living in the 3br brick veneer on the
1/4 acre block. Some will substitute pushbikes and start riding 20km
each way to work. Some will move closer to public transport, some will
leave Sydney and move to smaller urban centres where the driving
distance and time is less etc etc