LPG

In aus.motorcycles on Thu, 24 Aug 2006 14:55:10 +1000

more complex.... if the houses don't sell then they can't move, it
costs money to move.

(I dunno how long it's been since you could get a 1/4 acre and I dunno
you can *buy* a 3 bedroom home nowadays, every housing development
seems to be 1/8 acre blocks with 4 bedroom houses...)

People will change, but what are the human costs?

I wonder how far the people who are hurting live from work. I ride
20km each way, and I live well in. How may people who I see jammed on
Frederick St and the City West Link live the same distance I do, and
how many much further? What about the Epping Rd carpark?

Does anyone know where the people come from and go to?

Zebee

 

In the same way that gravity is a theory, yes.

Yup, because the elasticities of different things differ (funny that).

Hence your ability to change housing in the short term is limited but in
the long term is flexible - but the point at which it becomes flexible
is a longer time than your flexibility on changing vehicles, and they're
both longer than your ability to juggle your weekly expenditures.

In other words the effect is quite simple (and surprisingly for
economics intuitive).

Petrol prices go up dramatically. In the short term (weeks and months)
you cut back on the less neccessary outgoings - brownpaper bag it
instead of takeaway lunches etc. In the short-medium term (months) you
trade in the big car on something more fuel efficient, or you buy a
scooter to ride to work and leave the missus with the tarago, or buy a
pushbike and ride to the train station or whatever is the combination
that maximises your utility (bangs for bucks from your available
income). In the long term prices of houses in the outer ring drop
compared to closer in houses as it comparatively more expensive to live
there than it was.

So, the tolls thing is totally consistent - in the short term people
can't stop paying the tolls, they have to get to work and the cost is
factored into the relative value of the house they've bought. There's a
reason why inner urban houses are a lot more expensive - you pay a
premium for the shorter travel time, the greater availability of
services and etc. In the long term, changes in the cost of petrol and
tolls does effect people's behaviour, but they can't just sell their
house over night - in fact they may not do so as there may be other
factors they value more about where they live than an increase in
transport costs. Hence tolls will be relatively inelastic, petrol prices
somewhat inelastic in the short term and moreelastic in the long term

There is a huge substitution effect - over the last 18-24months the
sales of small cars have exploded and 4wd's have plummetted - there was
an article on that in the SMH in the last few weeks as well. A dealer
complaining it's near impossible to shift a landcruiser off the lot now,
whereas a couple of years ago they were selling like hot cakes.

You haven't noticed the scooter explosion over the last 2 years - people
are coming out of cars.

but you also have to make a lot of infrastructure changes to make it
feasible to ditch cars altogether, hence people will substitute as
practical to their needs and wants

And you pay considerably more to be in the inner west than you would pay
to be in the same unit if it is was in Casula or St Marys

JL

 

In aus.motorcycles on Thu, 24 Aug 2006 15:37:20 +1000

Are they?

Or are they coming out of public transport?

Either is likely.

I see lots of scooters on the City West Link, but how many are there
on the M2, or the M7? Or Windsor Rd?

Who is buying and riding them - innner or outer?

Does anyone know?

Zebee

 

Yeah, like a price increase stops people smoking.
I suspect we will buy pretty much the same amount of fuel and the
entertainment spend will decrease. We will take our lunches to work, That
will save us $50 which would cope with a $2.50 /l fuel cost. We will then
stop going, or less often visit restaurants, movies, theatres, etc.

Selling your current 3 yo 4 litre 6 and buying a new 2 litre 4 would the
most stupid thing you could do. Fiscally and otherwise.

Theo

 

I thought LPG was a form of petrol.

As I think JL pointed out, a supercillious attitude won't help. If you can't
answer the questions, please just say so.

Where do you think the Gov't will get the $2K they give you for the
conversion, and how will they replace the revenue for the excise you're no
longer paying?

Theo

 

Brisbane traffic and public transport statistics show no correlating shift
away from cars. In my view this will happen over time as additional interest
rate rises place increasing pressure on the Family budget.

Boxer

 

Many are moving north to Brisbane and stuffing up our roads.

I made a similar change 2 years ago, closed the commercial office, sacked
the staff, purchased a bigger home and set up a home office.

I now don't have to start the car 3 days out of 5.

Boxer

 

Houses always sell, its just a question of price.

Boxer

 

a lot of business travels on there and company cars dont care what it costs
essenially

most stop driving at night, weekends , long trips on weekends and plan
better for when
they do have to go out

without a decent Public transport service it doesnt matter a huge amount

people will prob take paycuts and work closer to home or go to unemployment
which is already happening (in lower income brackets) as it means down to 1
car and bugger all running costs
if you do not work combined with hefty incentives at centrelink with
multiple kids etc

 

No. I'm still worried about the animals in the paddock infiltrating my
unsecured wireless network and violating me!

 

Don't see any scooters commuting on the outer end of the M4 at all. I think
it's an inner city thing where the performance is more than adequate.
Prices have a long way to go before it's worth me taking public transport
yet and I drive or ride 40kms each way to work. Plus the extra time it
would take each way(roughly double).

Al

 

Lie back and think of England ?

 

Don't forget, the people that convert also have to pay GST on the conversion
labour and probably the materials so "The Rat" will get some of his money
back anyway.
So rather than reduce the excise, this way he looks like a good bloke but
looks can be deceiving.

 

That sucks, man, I thought it was gas.

I'm completely wrong and a prick as well. I have no idea what I'm
talking about.

No idea.

 

As far as summaries of someone's ability to argue a point, that one's
pretty spot on.

Vacuous fucktard...

 

What's your answer then?

 

CNG isn't very suitable for high revving smaller motors and the tanks are
very high pressure (more expensive than LPG tanks). It's a much better
truck and bus motor replacement fuel than it is a car replacement fuel but I
suppose if one didn't mind giving up the entire Nissan patrol cargo area it
could be done.


G-S

 

Victorian public transport costs are such that it's still just as cheap to
commute by compact car as it is to commute by train/tram. Fuel will need to
get even more expensive before people shift wholesale to public transport
down this way I suspect.


G-S

 

I might be tempted to put an LPG conversion on it though... particularly if
the government are going to pay $2000 towards the cost


G-S

 

So... hmmm... the government increases demand for LPG, where is all this
extra LPG going to come from? Is there a big stockpile somewhere that
they've just been filling up for the past 30 years waiting for demand to
increase? So as demand for gas increases, petrol production will
increase, which will create a glut of sorts of its own, and drive the
price of petrol down which will reduce demand for gas, which will drive
the price of LPG up.. etc...sounds like a roundabout... except that by
the time it goes around once the government are taking a bigger slice of
the excise pie and... what was your question again?

Nev..
'04 CBR1100XX