Man jailed over fatal road smash

Yeah, I guess today I've realised that I don't really have a moral
objection to the death penalty; I just 'don't like it' because there is
the possibility of executing an innocent person. I'm glad we don't
have it here because that means I don't have to worry about it, but
actually it seems I don't have a problem with it being used as
punishment -punishment is punishment. An appropriate punishment for
drug trafficking through Indonesia? Not my call, but they think so,
and I think a society has the right to make it's own choices as to what
to allow. So people here find it offensive that people get shot for
breaking the law. Indonesians might be offended that nobody here does.
Cry me a river.

 

I just think that any scheme would be easily manipulated.

Let's assume that the state scheme works on the basis of reducing
supply to each addict over tiem on the theory that they only get to
play if they seem to be making an effort to quit - that sounds like
government policy to me. Let's realise that heroin is addictive, ie -
addicts will do anything to get it, that shouldn't be too hard to
believe at this time. Equation adds up to: most addicts still wanting
more heroin. Illegal heroin demand remains; supply chain remains
intact, except with the additional supplier - black-market state
heroin. An easy way to get that; hook more people, let them qualify
for state heroin; cut it up with bleach to make it go further.

 

Calm, Moike.

It doesn't matter what I think: It's not within my ability to change
Indonesian law anyway. There are many things that it's worth my taking
democratic action on, but this one is outside of my control. They have
capital punishment; their choice. We don't; and I'm glad. There's too
much other stuff to care about; I might as well take action on the
stuff I can change.

 

The drug traffickers faced the death penalty as a direct result of their
own actions.

Nev..
'04 CBR1100XX

 

I think you should give the ABS a bit of credit for knowing what are
useless statistics and what are meaningful. The data they publish for
homicides over time is per hundred thousand head of population. So, we
were talking about proof...

Nev..
'04 CBR1100XX

 

...like lane splitting.

Nev..
'04 CBR1100XX

 

....and there I was thinking we were discussing how gullible the father
of Scott Rush was to tell the police that his son was a potential drug
trafficker.

Nev..
'04 CBR1100XX

 

They seem to have pretty strict implementation of the methodone program
and there is no reason to believe that the same methodology couldn't be
implemented for heroin. Go down to the late night chemist on St Kilda
Rd in St Kilda probably any evening of the week and see how it works for
yourself.

Nev..
'04 CBR1100XX

 

"Biggus La Great." wrote

We could try the US system. They have a higher percentage of their
people in jail than any other country. And they have the death
penalty. This is why their crime rate is so low.

More than 50% of their inmates are there because of drug possession.
And yet in 1900, no drugs were illegal, and anyone could walk into a
chemist and ask for a bottle of laudanum, liquid heroin. How many
people do we have in jail for possession? And why?

Theo

 

"JL" wrote

Just don't discuss that when you're in Holland next.

Theo

 

Let's not assume that ok... let's instead assume that the supply isn't
limited by time. That removes the supply problems that would lead to
the issues with the criminal element moving back in.


G-S

 

It's a great alternative to organised-crime-syndicate-sponsored addiction.

You make my point for me.

 

In aus.motorcycles on 16 Feb 2006 18:59:33 -0800

Why assume that?

It didn't happen in the Liverpool system.

What did happen was that the addicts themselves either stayed at the
same level, or cut down.

While managing to get education and training and jobs.

With no incentive to sell to fund their own habits, so no incentive to
get others hooked.

Tell me... do you think that Prohibition cost America money or saved
it? Was the death count, and the cost of crime, higher than it was
before? What was the long term effect of it including changes if any
of the way crime operated, and the changing attitudes of the bodies
set up to deal with it?

Was it a success?

Zebee

 

Not entirely. That would be true of 100 per cent of smugglers into
Indonesia were caught. It took the actions of the AFP added to their own
to put them in the positions they're in. That responsibility cannot be
disclaimed, and it effectively sidesteps Australia's official opposition
to the death penalty in the international arena. In other words,
Australian law enforcement officials found a way to circumvent their own
nation's official policy in this regard. And the Prime Minister has
undermined the nation's international opposition to the death penalty by
backing them up.

I think they should all be taken out and flogged publicly!

 

Are you suggesting the AFP or Australian government or someone else
coerced them into trafficking drugs?

Nev..
'04 CBR1100XX

 

No as an _indirect_ result of thier actions.


G-S

 

Then that does not agree with the graph _from_ the A.B.S for Victoria
that I saw Nev (seriously).


G-S

 

That's fair enough... I can't really sea much on your list I don't care
about either (with the possible exception of human genetic engineering).


G-S

 

Their mothers visiting them in prison was an indirect result of their
actions.

Nev..
'04 CBR1100XX

 

Geeee that's a change around here ;-)

It is a cop-out, but one I find understandable. Humans have always looked
first to thier own societal group and only later to wider groups.

Whereas activly supporting the death penalty I fine morally repugnant.


G-S