Motogp Japan (spoilers)

Hi all

Although I would prefer Edwards to be on that bike, it was good to see
Hayden come of age (so to speak) at the Japanese GP. Hopefully he will do
well in the last GP's. He has done well in the last few, I know, but just
hasn't been up there with the leaders as he was today (IMO).

I am not going to comment on the Tamada vs Gibernau <?sp> incident, as I
don't know what happened.

 

The result of which is that Nicky got the Podium. Tamada got
disqualified.

--Carlos V.

 

I think Tamada did move over and hit him, but I don't think
it was intentional and I have seen much worse over the years
go unpunished (Capirossi winning the 250cc championship,
Capirossi crashing the guy that was a test rider and a garbage
man but would race the italian rounds just to name two). I didn't
see the John Hopkins initiated crash at the beginning so I can't
comment on that crash. However, John has no business trying
to win the race in the first turn when anyone he gets in front
of will just pass him later anyway. He is disqualified in the
next GP round.

 

I've just watched this again in slo-mo. Tamada *is* in front by maybe a
wheel when he moves over. Sete still has plenty of room and never gets
anywhere near the white line. After the touch, Sete pulls left but still
doesn't touch the white line. It looks to me like Sete is defending his
line by deliberately setting up for the corner further across the track
than usual. This forces Tamada even further across. After Tamada is in
front, Sete makes no attempt to concede the corner which frankly is
hardly surprising with 3 corners left in the race. And when they've
disputed corners (especially this one) half a dozen times already in the
race. But that makes at least part of the responsibility, Sete's. Then
you have Tamada with pretty clearly less power/torque than Sete so the
only way he could race was to out-brake and then hope to block. He'd
looked all race as if he could turn faster lap times but his machine
wouldn't let him get far enough ahead to avoid just being swallowed up
on the next short straight. And then both riders made it round the
corner with out falling off. And the incident happened far enough back
from the corner that you have to think that Sete could have made it
without even running off the road. So all in all this was nothing like
Capirossi-Harada. And was less dangerous and less an issue than some of
the moves Bayliss, Edwards, Xaus and Hodgeson have pulled on each other
in the last two years.

So I think the incident is just racing and I think the penalty was
unjust.

 

So I think the incident is just racing and I think the penalty was

Interesting point, however you can see why they did penalise him cant you ?
Barging Gibernau while he is holding a bike right on the limit under braking
is a pretty sure
way of gaining advantage but possibly not what they want to encourage - look
at the touring
cars

 

Yes, I take the point, I just didn't consider it barging. I don't want
to see anyone hurt. I don't want to see people deliberately banging into
each other. But this is 3 corners from home where the only way one of
the guys can win is by out-braking the other and holding the line to
stop the other pulling through under power. How many times have we seen
some pretty radical moves in this situation in all the classes. And
isn't that what makes M/C racing exciting? If Sete had conceded the
braking and adjusted his line he might even have beaten Tamada. But at
the least nobody would have complained and Tamada wouldn't have been
excluded.

The point is that Tamada had passed Sete. And Sete had loads of room to
his left. What seems to be at issue here is how aggressively Tamada
moved over. Would it have been ok if he'd eased over?

Biaggi's old comment about Jacques comes to mind here. "This isn't
ballet".

 

The speed in which Tamada pulled over to the left, made it impossible for
Gibernau the react in time to avoid collision. Besides, i don't think
Gibernau could have expected such a brusque manoeuvre by Tamada.

Tamada crashed into Gibernau, nothing else.
After the collision Gibernau was clearly not able to brake in time to get
through the corner and still being on the tarmac. After the collision
Gibernau wasn't "thinking" at all. He -and everybody else in this situation-
reacted on impuls.

I agree with you on that, but only because Capirossi did it on purpose and I
Tamada's action was just badly executed.


And was less dangerous and less an issue than some of

I would prefer a 20 seconds time penalty.

André Klomp

 

Fully agree, Sete cannot do anything to avoid the contact as he's already in
the breaking zone and they all know that these zones are dangerous - just
look at where are the walls; so the sanction is justified but too severe.

 

I'm really suprised you haven't hit us with another one of those Spanish
conspiracy theory.
Anyway, I thought Tamada lacked aggression. He was giving Sete and Hayden
way too much room and his passes were anything but conservative (typical
japanese). The controversial move was aggressive, but I really believe the
outcome was a racing incident. Sete either had to yield or risk being hit.
He chose the later and that's just racing. Surely if they're going to
disqualify people for maneuvours like that, then well, racing is going to be
piss boring. Nobody will want to pass anyone anymore.

 

Good points. I also think why Sete ran off of the track wasn't because
the contact was so severe, but because his brake lever or handlebar
was what got hit so it didn't take much contact.

I don't remember the Biaggi comment. What was the situation surrounding
that comment? Was Jacque being accused of riding too aggressively?

Shane

 

I thought that was Barros he forced off of the track.

 

So, lesser riders shouldn't ride aggressively round championship
contenders? But presumably it's OK for Rossi to pass lesser riders
aggressively? Sete has to beat everyone, not just Rossi.

Of course, I suspect what's really happening here is that everyone in
race control is completely paranoid after Kato. People getting killed is
bad for business. But then they still haven't apportioned any blame for
that event.

 

Yeah. You're right. I've just watched it frame by frame. When they
touch, Sete is a good 3 feet from the white line. Then just after the
touch he gets a big wobble on with the back swaying around. Having moved
away from Tamada he ends up with the wheels almost crossing the line. I
guess my point was that when Tamada moved over Sete had plenty of room.
It was the loss of control afterwards that took Sete to the line. I've
seen riders in 125 and club racing cut across so that the passing rider
reaches the while line and the passed rider literally had no track left.
It wasn't like that. During the entire incident there's always at least
2 bike widths between Tamada and the edge of the track. But then that's
arguably because Tamada touched Sete and so stopped moving across.

It's all moot now, but I still see Sete refusing to be intimidated and
holding the line well out from the curb and Tamada along side or in
front and pushing outwards. So I end up having a hard time seeing
anything but a last lap, last few corners, battle of cojones. Just like
Edwards and Bayliss rubbing elbows at 190mph on the run into the last
lap Parabolica at Monza.

 

The legendary Marcellino Lucchi, a great and I mean *GREAT* rider who could
have won a lot more than he did if he just had a competitive bike before
turning 40.

 

Thanks! I couldn't remember his name. I remember
Capirossi just nailing Lucchi coming off of the line in
one race and I thought Lucchi had gotten seriously
injured.