Moving to UK

I know what your saying but as an example and I can't quote a direct
reference but what springs to mind is when I read the following:

If you take the increase in taxation away, the price of a car has not
risen from that of just after WW2.

When I first questioned that and read further it made sense. It's not
just the tax on the car but you must take it to the limit.
e.g..: Part of the cost of the car is the guy who works on the
production line. He pays tax. On his disposable income the items he buys
include tax and the people manufacturing those items also pay tax etc.
The only thing that has gone up it the tax extracted by the government
from the country as a whole. Upfront and hidden.

Going back to living in France I get the impression that the average guy
has more disposable income because the government take less upfront and
hidden. In the UK we appear to be overburdened with layer upon layer of
inefficient government bureaucracy.

 

It's job creation to hide the unemployment caused by failing manufacturing
sectors

 

On Fri, 12 Dec 2003 13:02:17 +0000, Mick Whittingham

Eh? Well it's certainly not true about the 'upfront' bit, as I thought
we'd established earlier. I pay income tax in Switz, of course, but
France has a significantly higher rate of income tax than the UK.

And I'm struggling to think of many things on which there's obviously
less duty/vat. As I said, alcohol and tobacco obviously fit this bill,
but cars & bikes, for example, are pretty much on a par with UK
prices. Not sure what other items attract secondary taxes (other than
VAT, which is also very similar) and would be significant in the
overall scheme of things.

Anyway, I stand by my earlier statement that _overall_ taxation is
probably higher in France than the UK, not lower.

Of course, many people get loads of it back in other forms,
particularly those with children, but that's another matter
altogether, IMO.

Have you had any experience with French bureaucracy? I'm lead to
believe that it's far worse, with much greater over-employment, than
the UK.

 

Unlike France of course

Phil.

 

Oh yes, for over ten years of working for the French Government
institution CNES. When I worked for them and the bureaucracy and rules
got in the way they made up their own rules and ignored the bureaucracy.
When they got a new guy in charge who stuck to the rules to the last
letter the whole system went pear shaped. But he was an exception.

My experience in the UK in general tends to go the other way, compared
to fields that were quite specialised in France.

 

Income tax rate of about 8.5%? sounds like a bargain...

 

I don't get that impression from talking to peers based in Germany,
France, Spain, Italy, Denmark, Belgium, Holland

Other countries have other advatages though; job security...

 

True today. Sold my places in the north, Neubruchhausen, (in Queer
Strasse,I kid you not[2]) and Kirckhoffen in the south before
unification. Was cheaper then not now.[1]

Not so sure here as many of my colleagues still live in France to work
in Switzerland or Germany and speak highly of the advantage. Sold my
part share (on the deeds) of a place in the Alsace about the same time
as the German places. A lot cheaper then. Research shows it would be
cheaper for me now to live in the south west of France now so I'm
looking for a place between Toulouse and Bordeaux. This is from
experience and not quoted statistics.[1]

Sold my villa in Jijona on the Costa Blanca late 90s was a *lot* cheaper
then not much has changed.[1]

Don't know.

One of the most expensive places in Europe in my experience. A mate of
mine tells of how when he lived there his Danish girl friend would come
home from work and take her clothes off and walk round in her knickers
as she didn't want to wear out expensive clothes. He thought it was a
good idea.

Rented a place for one of my Engineers in Charleroi during the late 90s,
was a lot cheaper than England as were his living expenses.

Only rented there in Noordwijk, while working at ESTEC, still cheaper
than England though. A very high ratio of natural blond, fit women
there.

I've always taken a positive approach to my time on the Continent.
Remember the good times and try to forget the sh*t times. And there have
been some!

[1] One may note that during the period of my living in Europe I had
abodes in four countries( including my place in England). Which meant I
was officially using any one of them for 3 months at a time and hence
legally never becoming eligible for tax. Although I did chose to pay a
token tax in Germany which at the time was a combination of convenience
(I owned a company there) and lowest tax payment as a predominantly
overseas director. Plus it keep the other tax agencies of my back.

[2] I means cross over street which could have a basis on it's use in
English

 

Because they didn't let their governments take all their rights away.

 

Yes, but it's a double edged sword though; in good times we employ more
swiftly (since it's not so painful to let them go) plus it's a more
attractive place to invest in.

It's a difficult one to call really, without the labour law changes we'd
have more secure jobs but... would there have been more or less of them?

 

I don't think so. One of the blokes in my co's accounts dept, said
that tax-wise (including hidden taxes), you're better off in the UK.

Heh, you could quite easily put France instead of UK there.

Ooooohhh yes. Social security, health, retirement, 35 hour week, etc,
etc...

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Newbies FAQ's at : http://www.ukrm.net/faq/ukrmscbt.html
My Page : http://www.rosbif.org/

 

Cab was seen penning the following ode to ... whatever:

Certainly true when comparing the UK to Germany, but that's partially
because the social security and health insurance contributions are
rather high in Germany. Just out of interest, how high are they in
France?

Or just about anywhere else...

 

So, your statements come from direct experience and not what you are
told to believe.
You will go far my Son.
If they don't wear you down quoting government statistics.

Always put personal experience before the alternatives when making
decisions affecting your own life. Let others flounder behind the walls
that they build, unknowingly limiting their horizons.


(Mmm must be the Green King IPA I was drinking last night.)

 

Sounds like a fantasy, more like. All the French taxpayers I've spoken
to talk about rates of over 30%...

 

But it's the concept of first hand experience I'm on about. As I've said
before: I'm the guy in the cartoon pointing at the 'widget' I can see on
the shelf of the 'stores' while the store man is looking at a screen and
telling me "The computer says we haven't got any."

I know from personal experience of living in several countries in Europe
and working afar that for 'me' and in 'my experience' certain countries
are cheaper to live in than the UK. And this can change as in Germany.

This is not a 2 or 4 week holiday thing I'm talking about. As any of the
long term 'living abroad' UKRMers will confirm it takes some time to
find out the over all picture of living in a country.

Also it is how a person lives effects his cost of living in a country.

Don't smoke, don't drink, like growing your own veg in your back garden:
Then be on the rock & roll and live in a council house with the half
acre back garden in Norfolk.

Please note, those of you who know I now live in Norfolk, this is not
what I'm doing.

 

You want to see my Payslips. Fsck, there must be at least 30
deductions for **** knows what. Then at the end of the year, there's
income tax to declare. After that, local taxes, etc, etc. It never
fucking ends.

 

I'm told the brake point is two kids.
More than two kids and you are much better off.
Less and you are paying for it.

One of my engineers in with three kids reckoned he was much better of in
France compared to the UK. The engineers I had in France who were single
or without kids, I had a special payment arranged off set the extra
taxes.

 

On Mon, 15 Dec 2003 10:33:38 +0000, Mick Whittingham
<> bored us all completely to death
with wittery prose along the lines of:

You're bang on there. Childless couples pay through the nose. My Uncle
in law gets shedloads more tax breaks for having three sprogs *and* he
gets a child allowance of about £500 pm on top.

You had babies for them?

 

No, just relied on the fact that French bureaucracy is flexible if it's
kept discreet.

 

Freudian slip there Mick?