Mt White accident(s)??

he has a brain...

 

Nice to see you've softened since we last spoke.

Cheers,
Dave
PS. I have to agree with you on this particular matter. I've done a St
John's course and in this case the rate limiting factor was breathing. No
breathies, no lifeys.

 

Hehe - it's in the mail. Good thinking 999.

Cheers,
Dave

 

hey dave.. sorry to hear about whats going on with you... I've been
through it in last yr as well, but have 2 kids in it...
hoipe all works out for u.

 

That's the nicest thing anyone's said to me in some time!

Yes, a 999 could limit my love of the loooong ride with tons of camera gear
+ laptop + a few changes of clothes + wine etc. (there's a lot more room in
tham tharr panniers these days...).

Cheers,
Dave

 

I have always been soft

I have also done a few first aid courses as well as being involved in
marine rescue for a few years. We took control and tried to maintain
life. When we worked with the Police (Water Police) they had a similar
attitude.

Unfortunately, more than once I have seen the (land based) Police back
off from real help at a road accident and instead deal with traffic
control and gathering witness statements.
Fine if the Ambos are already there but the dead opposite of what you
want if they are not.

This approach combined with a bad attitude can be fatal

Burnie M

 

I'm lost here.

Why did the first aiders stop? They were going to be arrested for offering
first aid?

Hammo

 

http://oroadsports.com/viewtopic.php?t=8165&sid=dbbf4e729331d26be1296aa7c7e2c4ab


"Another peeve to today's incident is directed at the local cops.
I am one person that has full respect for these guys and their jobs
however, here is how it unfolded. Attitude adjustments of the
attending Highway Patrol required.

Scene: Rider is turning grey, no pulse detected, no breathing
detected, head trauma, bleeding out on the road.

I said it was time to remove the helmet to give CPR immediately. Just
then, hear sirens approach. OK wait for ambos to do it.

Damm... it is the police and not Ambos. 20 seconds later Highway
Patrol get out of their cars. COP Says out loud "I am sick and tired
of attending these idiot bike rider accidents"
No thought to Brother who is in shock watching or the other riders
with them.

COP comes over with rubber glove to see if he can feel for a pulse.
I say he has turned grey, etc etc.. we need to remove the helmet and
start CPR"

Cop says "Do NOT remove the helmet, leave him for the Ambo's"
I reply "The ambos aren't here and he is not breathing"
Cops replies "I said leave him for the ambos and move away"
He then goes around asking who the witnesses are.

Guy looks dead. Ambo's arrive, and take Helmet off immediately. They
put cardio monitors on and advise he has died.

The poor Brother of this guy looks on and is in shock. He says that he
wants to punch this other jerk. Gixar offers his condolences and says
"I am sorry you had to witness this"

A lady (Julie I think) attends to the Gixar rider and helps heaps.
Tough lady too and was very well composed. "

 

First aid level 2.
If the rider is not breathing and has no pulse you remove the helmet and
commence cpr.

 

Thanks mate - not the best of things to go through that's for sure. Much
tougher with kids they say so you have my sympathies as well.

I'm going to do my best to ensure things work out well for both parties.
Fairness is all I want.

Cheers,
Dave

 

Actually, it wasn;t hearsay...as I read the forum posting (not in this
forum) it was a firsthand account.

No matter, my comments are based on what facts are to hand.

Put "Hyperthetical Scenario" at the top if it makes you feel better.

As stated, indeed this is a matter for the Coroner to determine the cause of
death and whether the direction of the police officer is the correct
procedure in the circumstances and whether the policy he was implementing
was the correct one.

The Coroner's report is not just a backward looking report but to save
future lives.

Yes it is a tough call...so I more than hope that someone gets it right if
I'm lying on the ground, not breathing, no pulse, gone grey and clearly
cannot wait for an ambo to arrive and find I'm dead.

Otherwise yes, leave my flippin' helmet on and direct traffic whilst I get
on with breathing and pumping blood.

 

The Coroner would consider whether the police officer followed correct
procedure by directing the helmet not be removed. Not just cause of death.

The issue is:

Is this standard policy by police that helmet must not be removed under any
circumstances and "wait for the ambo"..

If it is... MORE MOTORCYCLISTS WILL DIE...and how many already have died
needlessly due to possible poor training, poor attitude ..."just another
idiot biker"...

The more I think about the firsthand account I read, the more I see this as
a policy issue for the MCCofNSW to pursue.

It is unfortunate someone had to die in order to highlight poor
procedure...let's hope it's not endemic in the Force.

 

Your turn to kill her? Bummer IAC.

Gary

 

You seem pretty worked up about this alxrr, why can't the 'somebody'
who brings it to the attention of the Coroner and/or the Commissioner,
Minister, whatever of police be *you*?


And yes, thanks for asking, I *did* pen a letter to the Coroner
first thing this morning. There's something about people dying, even
if I don't know them from Adam, it still *really* gets to me. I
didn't sleep a wink last night, so I had plenty of time to mull it
over after reading the notes from various folks who were in
attendance at the accident on Saturday.

So my written approach to the Coroner (faxed for expediency, followed
up with a properly written/signed version) was to the effect that I
have information that I believe might not otherwise be brought to
the Coroner's attention (ie: I can pretty much guarantee that it
won't appear in the police report) and that may have a bearing on
the Coroners investigation into the matter.


The letter to the Coroner can only be wrt the apparent evidence
that the police officer contributed to the death. Coroner won't
be interested in conduct, professionalism, etc and so I plan to
follow up with letters to assorted gummint and police folks later
today. Chances are the noise I make will have no significant effect,
but if it gets one dud cop watching his back then I guess I
achieved something.

Why would Joe and Jesus give a FRF about something like that? I
don't see *anything* like it on their agenda so far. If you want them
to get involved on your behalf, *call* them.

I'm becoming more and more of the perception that it is a problem
endemic to at least a part of the Hornsby local command.



So c'mon, put pen to paper, or are you just gonna *talk* about it.


GB

 

and why are you both getting so worked up about an uncorroborated report
posted on a website forum? What verification did you do before you penned a
letter to the coroner?

I'm not suggesting that what the person wrote isn't true, just that if you're
going to be writing letters to the coroner you'd want to know that you had all
of your facts straight, and that they were indeed facts.

Why complain to the coroner about the police? What's wrong with complaining
to the police? (besides the fact that they probably won't really take
seriously complaints of behaviour based on uncorroborated reports on website
forums).

Nev..
'03 ZX12R

 

Geez Nev, I dunno, maybe 'cos a bloke who was tootling along minding
his own died? Maybe 'cos it could just as easily have been me or you?

None, nada, squat. Not one fuckin' iota.

Wasn't necessary in the circumstances. Wasn't even advisable in
the circumstances.

Even *you* have enough clue to know that there's more than one way
to skin the proverbial cat Nev. Sure, a letter to the effect of...

"Dear Mr Coroner Sir,

That bloke what died on the Old Road on the weekend died 'cos a cop
said no-one is allowed to help him. I know this is true because
a freind of mine wrote it on teh Intarweb. Therefore you should put
all those barstid cops in jail and sack them from their jobs too.

Yours truly,

Nev"

... probably wouldn't fly. (I've taken the liberty of attributing that
to you Nev, 'cos it seems to be about the limit of your comprehension
and so I figure the shoe fits)


On the other hand, a letter that draws the Coroner's attention to
*easily verifiable* chatter on the Internet that implies that a
police officer may have contributed to the death of the rider must
be considered.

Since you're being particularly thick today Nev, I'll spell out the
'easily verifiable' bit for you too. Three people posted on that
forum indicating that they were present at the scene at the time
of the death. I know one of those people, that person would never
make shit like that up. Two of them wrote stuff that might be of
interest to a coronial inquiry if indeed it (the incident as
reported) happened. If those people were there, then they're on
the list of witnesses that the police took. Two of them used names
that are close enough to their real names that it would take seconds
to put two-and-two together, call them up, and ask "Did that really
happen?". If nothing comes of it, its a lead followed up and five
minutes lost. If it did happen, then a dud cop gets to answer for
his actions.

I dunno? Why would you complain to the Coroner about police? I
certainly never advocated that.

Nothing. In fact it's a damn good idea. I'm glad you thought of
that one Nev.

Gee Nev, I guess we'll just have to get them corroborated then,
won't we.

He *might* be saying that 'cos he can't think of anything original,
but did you ever stop to think that maybe he said it 'cos your *are*
a fuckwit, Nev?

I think there would actually need to be some constructive criticism
before he can be expected to recognise it Nev.



It is a good thing that you're in my killfile Nev, 'cos otherwise
I'd have to read your mindless shit.


GB

 

LOL geez GB you can be a tool.. you really aren't that good at this net
thingo are you.


Why should I write to the Coroner? Silly GB...not my civic capability..
"somebody" should have firsthand knowledge of the event.

But what COULD I do..... What could ANY motorcyclist that is NOT involved
firsthand do?

I have drafted a letter to my local MP inviting him to verify the assertions
and follow up the alarming issues.... potential for motorcyclists dying
because of incorrect procedure and attending an accident scene with an
attitude.

And yes, I think it is an issue for MCCofNSW to follow up...gee... so I
posted to Zeebee the ausmoto rep...

GB...you DO know the governance structure of the MCCofNSW ?

Are you still confused? About many issues? I concur with your statement
"Chances are the noise I make will have no significant effect.."

Why does that not surprise me.

Thanks for making my day!

 

Nev.. wrote:

I suspect that was realy a rhetorical question, Nev, but.....

It's easier.

It's too hard to handle when you are suddenly faced with the
consequences of actions that either you, or your friends and
aquaintances, do.

The easy way out is to pick on some side issue.

Point the anger at someone else, not your mates who like a bit of a fang
down the Old Road.

regards,
CrazyCam

 

Much easier to talk about letter writing than actually write
letters, yeah I know.

Not sure who this is shooting at Cam, but the only people I've
been for a 'fang' up the Old Road with are you and JL and
Pisshead and company - I didn't see anything untoward happening
there, did you?

If someone isn't breathing, and a policeman (or anyone for that
matter) interferes with attempts to revive him, then that's not
a side issue, that's centre stage in my book.

The twat who caused the accident will have plenty of time to
contemplate his actions when he wakes up, the system will take
care of him.

Doesn't much help the dead guy though. Doesn't much help me
when some similar twat takes me out while I'm minding my own
on the Old Road.

You've been stuck behind me on the Old Road Cam, you know I
couldn't 'fang' anything even if my teeth were filed to a point.

*sigh*


GB

 

That's what I'd expect from you alxrr. All talk, no understanding,
no action. You *do* have first hand knowledge of someone talking
about something significant on the Internet, and its *entirely*
within your rights and your power to highlight that to the relevant
gummint types. What the hell gave you the impression that its OK
to write to a nigh-on-powerless local MP but that it's not OK to
write to the bloke (or sheila) actually investigating the death?

Geez, I dunno, you could write to your local MP inviting him to
verify the assertions, wouldn't work though. Your local MP doesn't
give a FRF. You could write the same thing to the Commisioner of
Police *and* the Minister for Police. Why, you could even write to
the Coroner who is responsible to investigate the death and highlight
the easily verifiable chatter on the Internet regarding the
assertions you've just asserted.

*Somebody* needs to point that out to the Coroner, or its not
going to come up in the investigation.

OK, we'll leave that job to Somebody shall we.

Nice of you to write a letter alxrr. You gonna put a stamp on it
and mail it? Gonna let us know what your local MP says, or only
if he says something you agree with?

I'm surprised you didn't take it to Jesus or the other BA rep?
What, didn't you think they'd follow it up for you?

Oh, I *know* about it. Now ask me if I have any faith in it?

Go play on the Old Road with your little friends alxrr. Go
convince yourself that the way you and your club behaves isn't a
root cause for these problems. What's that? Already convinced?
OK, as you were then.


GB