my tyres went off

When was the last time you heard Rossi say anything about his tyres
having gone off. And there he is setting fastest laps on the last lap.
Now listen to everyone else in the post race press conferences and press
releases. "I could have caught him but my tyres had gone off.", "I tried
to push but the rear was spinning up everywhere and going sideways not
forwards".

There's something going on here.

 

Not sure but it looks like maybe he has a real light touch, letting the bike
take care of itself, while others may be clamped to the bars.

I could be way off; haven't ridden any heavy bikes fast.

--
Ed Light

Smiley :-/
MS Smiley :-\

Send spam to the FTC at

Thanks, robots.

 

And it doesn't wash, and no one with an ounce of brain will believe it. It's
always difficult to distill the truth, but we can assume the factors at play
were:

(1) Rossi knowing he possesed a safe points cushion and knowing the utmost
objective is the championship

(2) Rossi obviously having some fighting spirit and loving to try to win,
and to hell with (1)

(3) Hayden riding very confidently all weekend

Ergo, in my humble opinion is that Rossi's controlled aggression at 100% was
no match for Hayden's at any point in time. Rossi loves to win - but in
Laguna, he knew to try to run with Hayden was way too high a risk. The
Edrwards-Rossi "showdown" is pretty immaterial - once you know you can't win
you will not "pull a Jerez" for second, plus the move Edwards put on Rossi
was pure racing poetry, and must have given Rossi a clear signal that
Edwards was quite determined to finish as high as possible. Rossi tested
Edwards later on, and Edwards responded by upping the pace and re-building
the buffer, again firing a warning shot at Rossi. Rossi thus decided to
settle for 3rd, but that was a result of him being utterly unable to
challenge Hayden for first and Edwards looking very strong in 2nd. Excuses
be damned, Rossi is mortal, and this is what happens when other guys are
riding on a confidence high on top bikes. None of the 3 was riding on fresh
tires, and the tire choice you make as a rider is the one that also
determines how great a rider you're that day. At the end of the day, not one
racer, ever, has been able to dominate 100% of all races with a field that
was even remotely even. Doesn't mean they aren't great, because even the
greatest aren't -and have never been- always unbeatable.

And hande't been back for quite a while. Plus that should be an extra
motivation to stick it to them - to beat someone in their home turf is the
sweetest victory, and I am sure Rossi would have loved it. I don't believe
for a second he was less motivated or less capable to win. He got outraced
fair and square, and it was great to watch it. Eat humble pie for once,
Dottore.

I didn't hear this statement anywhere. He seemed quite gracious about the
day belonging to Hayden and Edwards, and if some overzealous journalist
thatb worships him tries to make some other point it is hardly Rossi's
fault. Rossi seemed quite cool, in my opinion.

Where? Pointers to a Rossi quote? If he said that, it's crap.

As someone who likes to go there twice a year on track days, I'd be the
first one to welcome those changes, and I hereby state I'd contribute $1k in
a donation to LS for such a change - peanuts as it may be, if enough Bay
Area riders do that we'd wind up with what may well be the most spectacular
venue on the world. Laguna Seca has the potential to be the best damn
circuit on planet earth. And I have ridden the Nordschleife and the Isle of
Man (albeit very slowly, all of them ... I *love* Laguna Seca, and going
back there year after year.

....pablo

and not just selfless safety issues benefitting all. As they keep

 

Valentino Rossi (#46 Gauloises Yamaha third place)



Q Valentino, you've increased your lead in the championship and taken third
place in your first appearance at Laguna Seca. You're not too disappointed,
are you?



A No, no, for sure not too disappointed. I'm happy. I start for the race,
and I know the start is important, because I want to stay with Nicky more
close as possible. Because we make some tire choice for safety before the
beginning, because we are not at 100% with the bike, enough time during the
practice for understand the track, so is possible to make better. I make -
the start was not bad, but unfortunately they start in front of me, and at
the beginning was very, very slow. Straightaway I lost one second from Nicky
on the first lap. He was strong, and I was too far. Not too far is possible
to attack, but I try to follow him, but was quite difficult. Anyway, today
he is very strong and in some parts of the track is faster than me. So it is
okay. After I fight with Colin very much, and I know he is coming from
behind, and he rides quite smooth, so I think he don't overtake me
straightaway.



But when he arrive, he overtake me and got through. I don't expect him and I
lost a little bit - I am not precise, and my rhythm is not very good like
some other races. So is more difficult to ride the bike, and sometimes I
make some mistake. I am more up and down. And then I can't concentrate,
because behind are other riders that want to arrive on the podium. Because
is very important for me, and is very important for me to arrive in front of
all of the European riders. I push a lot. At the end I was quite fast. I
arrive to Colin. When he look at me on the last lap, I say, "Yeah, I am
here." [Laughter.]



I try to put a little bit of pressure on him, but anyway, difficult to
overtake. I think maybe if I try anything, I see already the two Yamaha in
the dirt on the last corner, and for sure is not very good, and I say okay,
is enough. I am happy with more advantage on the championship.



Q In two weeks' time, Donington Park.



A In two weeks is a great race for me. It is near my home, and Donington is
a familiar track, and we make good, good work together with Yamaha, together
with Colin. Now we are together on the podium for the second time in a row.
Colin is very fast in Donington, so is Nicky, so I hope to fight with those
two guys and in the opposite arrive.



Q Valentino, was it more the safety issues or your lack of familiarity with
the track that affected your performance today?



A The problem is for all the riders, during the practice you think maybe
some place this track is a little bit dangerous, but in the race you don't
think about nothing. And this is the problem about the safety. [Laughter.]



And yes, I follow - is an important race, because following Nicky and Colin
I understand some good points, some good lines, and maybe am faster for next
year.



Q Colin, you had a softer tire than Nicky and Valentino. Would it have made
a difference in the outcome of the race if you had chosen the same tire as
they did?



EDWARDS: I think it would've made a difference at the beginning of the race,
because I probably would've been shit slow, to be honest. I tested the tire
they were on, and I didn't get along with it. My settings, my bike, and I
didn't get along with their tire. So I just used the tire. They say it's
softer, but you never know with Michelin. They say - it's maybe a different
family, or whatever, and they say it's softer, but the tires seemed to work
pretty good. Like I said, the last eight laps, nine laps, I was just hanging
on. We kind of knew that, with a soft tire, that we might run into that, and
we kind of figured that out this morning in warmup.



http://www.superbikeplanet.com/2005/Jul/050711k.htm




--
Ed Light

Smiley :-/
MS Smiley :-\

Send spam to the FTC at

Thanks, robots.

 

Thanks Ed. As far as Rossi's arrogance is concerned, the relevant statements
seem to be...

Rossi quote "other riders that want to arrive on the podium. Because
is very important for me, and is very important for me to arrive in front
of
all of the European riders"

Meaning it was important, but not the only thing that mattered as his other
statements indicate. To me he does acknowledge both Hayden's and Edwards'
performance that day, and clearly states it would have represented too much
of a risk to try to pass Edwards (let alone Hayden).

I'd love to see Rossi beat. I think his pass on Gibernau was crap and
deserved a penalty. However, an arrogant prick he doesn't seem to be based
on his public statements, after all. With his track record, I know I would
be (sure, fire away Mark)

....pablo

 

To me that reflects who f*cked up their start the worst, and says little
about the tire issue you talk about.

....pablo

 

Oh, I'll betcha if it had been Sete instead of Colin he would have
taken him out on the last lap. ;-) As it was, leading in the
points, a decision not to put the two Factory Yamaka bikes into
the dirt on the last lap when they had certain podium finishes
sounds plausibly strategic.

There was a race for second. Vale must have believed the TV commentators
who thought that there were only two passing zones on the track. Colin
watched his line at the entry to the corkscrew and said, "well, if you're
going to go *that* way...."

 

The guy who has (had?) a chance this year was pissing and moaning
about the track, and then took out Barros in a stupid accident.
Ack. Ppppt.

Not nearly as funny as the Attack Kawasaki. Kamikazesaki.

 

I've seen the quotes, but I see him being quite gracious to Hayden and
Edwards, not really offering the excuses some seem to read. Perhaps there's
more pointers to quotes where he actually says all that?

....pablo

 

The key now is 2006. 2005 seems basically over since what seems to be a
change of guard in Honda (Hayden and Melandri leaving Biaggi and Gibernau
behind) makes Rossi's job os scoring the championship even easier. And that
is Rossi's objective, so I am not quite ready to see a big shift based on
the result of one race. Especially when this comes after Rossi's won so many
races in a row, setting a record and all.

And come 2006, when all of a sudden they read they're title candidates,
Hayden and Melandri may just clamp up the way Biaggi and Gibernau have done
in that position - we will not know until we know. The younger guard still
has a lot to prove. Melandri for one has to yet win a real MotoGP race.

As to Edwards, like Melandri, he still has a lot to prove at this level,
good as his podium finishes have been. There ar eplenty of guys in MotoGP
racing history that scored far more podiums than Hayden-Edwards-Melandri
combined, and yet never represented much of a title threat.

So I can't susbscribe to the chinks in Rossi's armor theory based on *one*
race. In fact, it'll probably be next year before we truly can establish
that. Right now, he's so ahead on points that one can only really state he's
at the height of his powers.

I want a more competitive championship, badly. Laguna Seca was great because
it finally gave us another finish, but let's not get acrried away in its
significance and interpretation.

....pablo

 

I don't think that is completely true which is why I started this
thread. I think what's happening is that Rossi and Burgess are spending
almost all of practice optimising the bike and their tyre choice for the
shortest race time. And that leads him (this year) to run a harder tyre
than the others and to have more of a feel for going fast on tyres that
are used but not useless. Little bits of that came out this weekend with
Edwards saying that he tried Rossi's choice in practice but it upset the
bike so he went back to a tyre that would be fast in the first 2/3 of
the race and useless in the last third. Part of the reason for Rossi
being able to do this is a belief that even on difficult circuits he can
find somewhere to pass anyone. So even if he ends up 2nd when the tyre
state turns his way, he believes he can convert that into 1st.

As for this race, I don't think he wanted to be there, but he's enough
of a politician not to complain too much. I reckon he thought that he
could have beaten Hayden but that it wasn't really worth the effort it
might have taken. And for once he didn't know where he could have passed
him. As it was he held Edwards to 0.5s and Hayden to 2s and on each of
the last 3 laps he was 0.5s quicker than Hayden. Judging by the body
language he seemed genuinely pleased for Edwards.

So he gets a podium, the Yamahas cross the line together, he pushes both
riders enough to keep them honest and let them know he's still the boss
really, he got the front row start, and he gains more points over his
next three rivals in the championship. Job done, next race please.

On the Laguna safety thing, there was a shot in practice of Biaggi
parking the bike. He ended up in a place where there was no service road
and was walking along the top of the barrier to get back. One of the
criticisms which is going to be real hard to fix is what happens when a
bike falls in the two turns before the corkscrew. It's not just that the
walls are there but that there's a sheer drop and mountain side behind
them with no service road. So no way of retrieving the wreckage without
a red flag. You can argue that nobody ever falls there. But then Nakano
managed that crash when his tyre blew in a place nobody ever falls. And
Kato died hitting a wall that nobody ever hits.

Which makes Edwards move into 3rd all the more ballsy. One of his "I'm
coming through no matter what happens." moves.

 

Second half of that race were about conserving the position for the first 4
riders.
So to me that comparison says absolutly nothing. Rossi set his fastest lap
on one of the last laps again. Edwards was the one in trouble but even he
managed a fast last lap. If they all actuelly fighted for positions the
reuslt might have been different but almost certainly not as indicated by
removeing the first 4 laps.

/MBE

 

<snip>

Well observed and well said Julian

/MBE

 

I think that's too simplistic. What matters is overall race time and
having enough tyre left in the last 5 laps to pass if necessary and pull
away if not.

I think if Rossi had been motivated he could have closed on Edwards
around lap 23, passed him and closed on Hayden by lap 30. I don't think
the motivation was there. Too many things conspiring against it. But
this is all just guesswork. Hayden beat him and so did Edwards and
that's all that matters. As for passing, it's tricky at Laguna. We've
seen lots of passes into the corkscrew. Hail Mary's into the last
corner, Haga round Corser in the turns after the corkscrew. And insanity
in turn 6. They're all difficult and all potential disaster.

Not the pass on Rossi but the pass earlier in the two corners before the
corkscrew. They were 3 abreast with Edwards on the left side of the
track on the white line. That's turn 6, right? I think he was passing
Biaggi and Bayliss but I could be wrong.

 

There is a certain amount of confidence that comes from knowing with
certaintly where the road will be when you get there....

 

Maybe, my ass. Why don't you say the same about Mladin? Similar
scenario.

 

You're right about the "fastest lap" ting. What I meant is that these guys
don't do strings of 25's by accident. They only do that if they are happy
with what they've got. I believe we've seen races where the relative pace
were so much higher and the riding more spectacular.

I don't intend to take anything away from Hayden or Edwards but why is it
that this was probably the most boring race of the season? Yes there was an
attack or two, but Edwards never got at shooting distance of Haydon, and
when Rossi attacked Edwards responded to cover his ass on the last lap.
Same thing with Max/Gibernau I think. Gibernau was close but most of the
time with to much distance to disturb Max's race line.

Why didn't they push harder? I can't help to suspect that the "safety issue"
played a role here, at least for the Europeans. Having said that I suspect
that part of the Europeans skepticism is just as much about the unfamiliar
track layout. You have a few scares, a few mistakes at this unfamiliar track
and you are quickly scared into satisfaction for what you've got.

/MBE

 

Sorry, but I wouldn't put my hopes too high. Rossi has been loosing races
before without loosing his confidence. The fact that he could cruise in from
here and still grab the championship by a huge margin is more confidence
than he ever need, and I'm quite certain he'll let the others know that.
Then he'll still win a few races more, just for the "fun of it". Sure, big
boost for the others :-/

/MBE

 

Because you're not American? ;-b

I thought that Edwards' pass of Rossi was pretty exciting. There was
a lot of other action, too, back in the pack. TV coverage doesn't
always highlight the racing, it focuses on the front runners.

The corkscrew is terrifying -- the elevation drop while going from one
knee to the other is enough to make you feel your heart in your throat.

The carousel at Sear's Point has a similar aspect -- a blind entrance,
sweeping downhill and off-camber turn, and you can maintain speed
if you slide toward the outside on the exit, but that's also where
the marbles are. Fun!

 

Is Mladin still cruising? BTW, how many times has Yates screwed up
Mladin one way or another in the past few years?