Needle matches, grudges, enmity, vendettas, revenge: MotoGP looksclassic this year

Discussion in 'Motorcycle Racing' started by Not Leonard Cohen, Jan 15, 2010.

  1. It is wonderful to hear that the Simoncelli-Bautista-Barbera words-and-
    contact war is moving up into MotoGP. Aoyama is a comparative
    pussycat, but he is fast. Cocky Lorenzo will not make room for these
    hot young upstarts, and Pedrosa will have more occasion to grouch.
    Rossi will remain a genius rider, but this pack of animals may just
    elbow the master into the gravel. Marvellous. Nice guy Nicky, time to
    retire. Good guy Stoner, put on your Doc Martins.

    Somebody once said, speaking of baseball, that "No game is much fun
    unless the players really hate each other."
    Bring it on, MotoGP for 2010! Yeehoooooo!
    Not Leonard Cohen, Jan 15, 2010
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  2. Not Leonard Cohen

    Julian Bond Guest

    Bring it on WSB. Actually bring it all on (except AMA). It is of course
    going to be the best year ever.

    Who's left standing at the end of the musical chairs? There's a few
    people who've been hung out to dry in minor championships, but who's got
    no ride at all and really should be out there somewhere? James Ellison.
    Any others?
    Julian Bond, Jan 15, 2010
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  3. Not Leonard Cohen

    Mark N Guest

    Jamie Hacking, Jake Zemke, Ben Bostrom, Eric Bostrom, Mat Mladin...

    From my view 2010 looks like the worst year ever, I have never been so
    pessimistic about big-time racing. Obviously there's the DMG
    situation, which at this point has left America without a professional
    championship to speak of. But that's only the "highlight".

    Beyond that, MotoGP will still feature boring-as-hell, electronically-
    controlled 800s, and the 17 riders in the field hardly excite -
    midgetry still runs rampant, of the 17 confirmed riders 10 are
    Spaniards or Italians (and 6 of the 8 factory riders) and the field is
    otherwise the most ingrown it has ever been - 14 of 17 come from
    125/250 and have never raced regularly outside of GP as adults (I
    think; not certain about Aoyama and Kallio). Last year was dominated
    by the four aliens, which seems likely to only partially be about
    talent, and there is almost nothing that suggests this year won't be
    more of the same - Snow White and the Three Dwarves.

    WSB has lost the best racer they've had in 8, 10 years and maybe ever,
    and now it's a combination of aging 2nd-raters and a bunch of young
    Brits who couldn't beat the likes of Lavilla, Kiyonari and Byrne at
    home. Given the machines, the rules and last year's results it seems
    likely Ducati Corse will dominate the championship.

    It's very likely that this will be the first year in a couple decades
    that I will not attend a single AMA-only event (I'm not even planning
    on taking the short ride to Sears), and likely that the WSB round at
    Miller will be the first world championship round in America I don't
    attend since the WSB races at Brainerd in 1991. Kinda looks like
    Laguna and Indy will be it for me, and even they aren't at all
    certain. Really the only rooting interest I'll have this year is
    Spies, of course, although he's been relegated to a satellite bike,
    and Hayden in his continuing battle with that Ducati. I guess I'll
    probably be pulling for Rea and Toseland in WSB, but without real gut-
    level fire, and ultimately it may be reduced to an "anybody but
    Ducati" deal...

    But I can see where commercial manipulation in the "world"
    championships will make fans in Spain, Italy and the UK very happy
    this year. But perhaps with a mysterious, lingering empty feeling...
    Mark N, Jan 16, 2010
  4. Not Leonard Cohen

    Julian Bond Guest

    Ben has a ride. Eric has effectively retired. Mat has retired.
    Still plenty of stories to follow. And the racing at the front of
    MotoGP, WSB, WSS, BSB all promises to be entertaining. And then there's
    the Moto2 experiment. Maybe your glass is half empty again.

    In the US, it feels like Laguna and Miller may well struggle. Indy
    should still pack them in, let's hope for good weather this time.

    As for riders with no ride, pretty much everyone in the world
    championships has found their place. In BSB, there's really only Ellison
    and Lowry stuck out in the cold. From AMA, Chaz Davies and Laverty found
    places. I don't know about the others apart from Hacking and Zemke both
    of whom are getting on a bit now. Is Hayes racing next year?
    Julian Bond, Jan 16, 2010
  5. Not Leonard Cohen

    Julian Bond Guest

    Promoracing Kenny Noyes Harris
    You think Haga and Fabrizio are going to dominate WSB this year? I
    don't. I'm sure they'll both be in the front group but "dominate"? The
    Ducati was starting to look slow on top speed last year and I think this
    will get worse as Yamaha and Honda match Aprilia's top speed.
    Who do you think pays the extra? Is the cost to the circuit greater than
    say, Jerez or Sepang?
    Who are these capable Americans? I have trouble thinking of anyone who
    deserves a ride in 125, Moto2 or MotoGP who isn't already there.
    Citation required.
    Hopkins probably peaked in his last year at Suzuki. He's made some *bad*
    mistakes and been seriously injured since then. I really don't think
    it's got anything to do with his passport.
    Julian Bond, Jan 16, 2010
  6. Not Leonard Cohen

    z Guest

    Noyes has to be at least 30 years old, no?
    z, Jan 16, 2010
  7. Not Leonard Cohen

    Julian Bond Guest

    And I think you're forgetting the repeated injuries and the failure to
    turn up one Friday. Damaged goods, and not just through falling off
    badly and repeatedly. Then when he goes to WSB he doesn't impress with
    his speed and then falls off again. Why should anyone think he can be
    fast again, and why shouldn't they think that he might just screw up
    again. Smacks of Gobert or Russell and there's no place for that stuff
    at the highest level any more, if there ever was.
    Julian Bond, Jan 17, 2010
  8. Not Leonard Cohen

    Julian Bond Guest

    Really. And there was me looking forwards to a Haga, Fabrizio, Toseland,
    Crutchlow, Rea, Haslam[1], Biaggi slugfest. With Camier, Vermeulen,
    Corser, Checa, Byrne one step behind them. And of course Xaus falling
    off spectacularly every other weekend. Maybe none of them will be as
    fast as Spies was last year, but the racing will be better for it.

    Hmmm. Crutchlow, Rea, Haslam, Byrne all trying to prove they're better
    than Toseland. That should be fun.
    Julian Bond, Jan 17, 2010
  9. Not Leonard Cohen

    Julian Bond Guest

    And of course those with long memories remember Dennis Noyes fondly
    a) He's a laugh who was part of the old school of messing around in hire
    b) Used to be one of the commentators on Eurosport.

    So we'll be watching Kenny and hoping he does well.
    Julian Bond, Jan 18, 2010
  10. Not Leonard Cohen

    Dirt Guest

    I think fondly of Dennis Noyes because I tremendously enjoy(ed) his
    writing and the odd bit of US TV commentary back in the Doohan/Rainey/
    Schwantz 500cc days. Does he have any English language media outlets
    these days?
    Dirt, Jan 18, 2010
  11. Not Leonard Cohen

    Julian Bond Guest

    Nothing to do with his passport then.
    Julian Bond, Jan 18, 2010
  12. Not Leonard Cohen

    Julian Bond Guest

    Sometimes I'm convinced that you don't actually follow M/C racing but
    just read stats pages.

    While we're on Americans (we were weren't we?)
    - RL Hayden to Pedercini Kawasaki WSB
    - Jason DiSalvo to BE1 Triumph WSS replacing Gary McCoy and partnering
    Chaz Davies
    Julian Bond, Jan 18, 2010
  13. Not Leonard Cohen

    Julian Bond Guest

    No. FOAD.
    Julian Bond, Jan 18, 2010
  14. Not Leonard Cohen

    Julian Bond Guest

    Last year was the first for ages that I didn't get to a WSB or GP race,
    it was all BSB. I have a hard time accepting the price for GP and WSB at
    Donington clashed with Glastonbury. But BSB, I was at Brands, Donington,
    Cadwell and both Oulton Park races.
    But selective quoting from stats misses the actual nature of the racing.
    Somebody who consistently comes third looks like a loser even if they
    were inches off the battle for 1st and 2nd every weekend. If all you do
    is compare race wins, you can't see that they were right on the pace.

    Then there's the other stories. Rea's 5th is not a bad rookie year. But
    actually it included 2 wins and 6 podiums. The first half of the year
    was confused by Ten Kate losing their way and then changing their
    suspension supplier. He out-rode his two team mates. He's clearly not
    afraid to cut inside the stars. So he's now going into a season with
    experience, a sorted bike and confidence. So why write him off because
    he only got 5th and 2 wins? If you'd followed the racing instead of
    obsessing over win ratios, you'd know that.

    But then he ain't shit because he ain't American and you're probably
    really writing him off because he's from some village in Northern
    Julian Bond, Jan 19, 2010
  15. Not Leonard Cohen

    pablo Guest

    I remember Dennis Noyes because he lived in Montcugat (north of
    Barcelona) and wrote for Solo Moto and then Motociclismo in Spain. And
    very funny. And a total groupie of Roberts and Mamola and Baldwin and
    the entire US invasion and wrote to make them very popular and beloved
    in Spain. (Geez, Roberts Jr learned to ride a bike mostly in Spain and
    Mark N doesn't mention that :))

    I remember meeting Noyes at the motorcycle convergence points as a
    teenager (ask him about Calafat).

    Noyes is cool, and *totally* American. Since when is living in Europe
    anti-USA? Geez, some people...
    pablo, Jan 22, 2010
  16. Not Leonard Cohen

    pablo Guest

    Oh 2010 is going to be so different.

    Even with AMA finally dead (good riddance, talk about a series that's
    been boring for years) because not enough paying customers or sponsors
    cared anymore, MN will keep pontificating the natural superiority of
    US talent that could not even keep its local base interested.
    Whatever. I am overstating the point, it is sad a once so great series
    is moribund, and that motorcycle racing has lost a fanbase in the USA.
    On the other hand, I can only imagine Mark's glee if the roles were
    reversed, and AMA was flourishing while MotoGP went out of business.
    We'd never hear the end of it. :)

    ON the other hand, I echo Mark's concern that Moto1 in 2010 may be a
    boring year. There are only 3 riders that can win a race, and neither
    Lorenzo nor Stoner seem to be able to keep it together for a season
    mentally. Pedrosa doesn't count - he'd only win on a superior bike,
    but he is not able to direct Honda's resources to deliver on it. And
    yet Mark i going to claim I am a groupie for Spanish riders. :) The
    newcomers are on second tier bikes. Spies will impress and win at
    least one race, but given the material he rides he's probably good for
    a predictable 4th in the championship, which actually would show he'd
    be a serious contender for a win on a good bike. Ad I have no doubt
    that, once the 1000 format comes back, and Rossi moves over to F1
    (he's clocked amazing times on a Ferrari), Spies will win a title. And
    teams will make sure to secure his services. So to me Spies is just
    bidding his time until then.

    On the Hopkins discussion, heck, I liked the guy a *lot* and have the
    posting history to show it. But he is unfortunately done. I think his
    crashes riding that damn Suzuki that he made often make look
    competitive cut his career short. It is unfortunate. But I doubt he
    would want to be riding a second tier bike and keep doing that to
    himself given his fighting spirit. It's nothing to do with him being
    American, heck it's got to do with him having been there many years
    and probably in the end not wanting a second tier bike anymore. I
    would have liked to see Hopkins on a better bike... like 5 years ago.
    *that* was wrong. But not the fact he is not riding in MotoGP now.

    For all the word about the favoritism for the likes of Bautista - they
    will be riding shit bikes probably no accomplished rider wants to
    ride. Not everyone wants to be riding 2s slower a lap for the honor to
    be in MotoGP.

    Moto2 hopefully is a hornets nest, and steals the show. I look forward
    to Elias hopefully getting good material there and showing 'em yo0ung
    upstarts a trick or two. :)

    pablo, Jan 22, 2010
  17. Not Leonard Cohen

    Switters Guest

    I can't decide if this was a mistake or a tactical move by Bautista.
    Obviously he couldn't go into any other factory team, which would have
    meant one of the satellite teams and it's no guarantee that they'll be any
    quicker for him.

    I can't see Suzuki sorting out their problems with the 800 now, and
    presumably will write it off and concentrate on the 1000cc. So next year
    he'll have a dilemma of jumping to another factory or gambling on Suzuki
    getting it right.

    Maybe it was the money.
    Switters, Jan 22, 2010
  18. Not Leonard Cohen

    Mark N Guest

    No, I didn't and that's because:
    a) It has no bearing whatsoever on the matter at hand
    b) It isn't even true in any case.
    So people indeed. Of course we were talking about Kenny Noyes and not
    Dennis Noyes. And this was about Moto2 having an American presence,
    which is a bit more than just having one rider who happens to be
    American by nationality, even though he was born and largely raised in
    Spain, and his roadracing career has entirely been in Spain as well.
    Not so different than calling Jamie Hacking or John Hopkins British.,
    and calling Hopper a British presence in MotoGP...
    Mark N, Jan 22, 2010
  19. Not Leonard Cohen

    Mark N Guest

    Your basic assumption seems to be that Bautista is really good, good
    enough to expect to have been chased by the better factories, good
    enough in their eyes that he actually was chased by other factories.
    And in fact there's no evidence of that, I don't think, it seemed his
    choices were to stay with Aspar and ride a satellite Ducati or go to
    Suzuki. If you look at the Honda satellite teams and Tech 3, I don't
    see where he really had a serious chance of getting any of those
    rides. I think the prospect of riding the "career-killer" Ducati
    spooked him, so he went with Suzuki.

    And given that Suzuki wouldn't pony up any money for Spies a year
    earlier, I doubt they pay him a huge amount. But right now almost any
    ride in MotoGP is better than anything anywhere else, and I have to
    believe that guys like Vermeulen, Toseland, Elias, de Angelis would
    have been very happy to have been offered a ride at Suzuki.

    In fact Bautista didn't do enough in 250 to deserve a top ride, even
    with his other built-in advantages for MotoGP (Spanish passport and a
    name rider in Spain, a 125 championship, entirely GP-grown, tiny
    Mark N, Jan 22, 2010
  20. Not Leonard Cohen

    Ed Light Guest

    Dennis Noyes who was an announcer at streaming? The father of

    I wrote him suggesting doing an article about, if I remember right, why
    not use larger front tires, and he wrote an article just for me. Never
    published it, I think.
    Ed Light

    Better World News TV Channel:

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    Thanks, robots.
    Ed Light, Jan 22, 2010
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