New bogeyman?

Discussion in 'UK Motorcycles' started by Kenny, Aug 31, 2006.

  1. Kenny

    Kenny Guest


    I am glad you seem to have taken government propaganda regarding PFI hook
    line and sinker..............guess someone has too!

    k
     
    Kenny, Sep 2, 2006
    #21
    1. Advertisements

  2. Kenny

    catman Guest

    No, and he seems to have buggered off. No sport, these days.

    --
    Catman MIB#14 SKoGA#6 TEAR#4 BOTAFOF#38 Apostle#21 COSOC#3
    Tyger, Tyger Burning Bright (Remove rust to reply)
    Alfa 116 Giulietta 3.0l (Really) Sprint 1.7 75 TS 156 TS S2
    Triumph Speed Triple: Black with extra black bits
    www.cuore-sportivo.co.uk
     
    catman, Sep 2, 2006
    #22
    1. Advertisements

  3. Kenny

    Tom Robinson Guest

    This is not how the government has described PFI, they have never
    referred to it as borrowing money, so would you like to explain which
    exact bits of government propaganda you are referring to?
     
    Tom Robinson, Sep 2, 2006
    #23
  4. Kenny

    Tom Robinson Guest

    The overall cost of PFI is far greater than if the government had to
    fund the services directly, but it gives the government the advantage
    that it can keep the debt off its books at the present time, although
    it may have to pay far larger sums over time. The government has been
    hoping that it can divert public attention away from these facts,
    which seems to largely have worked. It also hoped that the quality of
    the services provided would not be diminished, which of course has not
    been the case, moving the services into the private sector seems to
    have added even more bureacracy due to the complexity of the contracts
    and the number of companies involved, and people are starting to see
    the results of this.

    The overall cost to the government does not really matter, but the
    fact that the debt does not get counted in the national defecit is
    hugely politically valuable. When it does come time to start paying
    the money back, the government will do what they have always done and
    simply create more money, which they are able do limitlessly and
    without effort.
     
    Tom Robinson, Sep 2, 2006
    #24
  5. Kenny

    Richard Guest


    How on earth can paying private companys ten times as much for running a
    public service (badly), than it would have cost if remaining in public
    ownership, be seen as "borrowing" money?

    k
     
    Richard, Sep 2, 2006
    #25
  6. Kenny

    Tom Robinson Guest

    Because they would in the past have borrowed money in order to build
    new schools, hospitals, tube lines etc, whereas under PFI they have
    private companies pay for the investment costs and then the government
    pays them a service charge to use the asset. This is in effect the
    same as the interest the government would have to have paid on the
    borrowed money under normal circumstances. Obviously this is worse
    value for money in the long term, but it allows the government to keep
    the "debt" off their books, so it is politically advantageous to them
    in the short term.
     
    Tom Robinson, Sep 2, 2006
    #26
  7. Let's take a look at how PFI works in the "City Academy Project".

    A junior minister from Dept of Education says to a businessman: "Why
    don't you promise to spend £2 million setting up an Academy? You don't
    actually *have* to pay the money, just *promise* it! We won't chase you
    to stump up the cash for, I dunno, ages, -if ever! [There might also be
    a peerage in it for you- nudge , nudge, win, wink].

    You can choose what is taught, who to employ, the numbers of students
    and their selection process. The government will pay all running
    expenses (about 28 million pounds) and underwrite all your risks if
    things go wrong (better keep the last bit to yourself- eh?). The land &
    buildings will be transferred to you for you to do what you like with
    them after the political noise has quietened down and people have
    forgotten about these deals- nice little earners there for you in terms
    of redevelopment values!

    What's in it for us, the government? Oh, the usual twaddle about the
    "Third Way", blending the public and private for the good of the country
    and selling off the family silver. Oops! I didn't say the last one, did
    I? What? Yes, I'd be delighted to become a non-executive Director of
    your multinational when my political career comes to an end- probably in
    less than a year's time."

    You will! Oh! Jolly good! Tony and Cherie will be delighted! No,
    don't send any cash directly to Downing Street A bit infra dig
    don'tyerknow!"
     
    Humble Scribe, Sep 2, 2006
    #27
  8. Kenny

    Tom Robinson Guest

    It's a bit like these "pay nothing for the first 18 months" deals that
    you get on sofas and such. Just bigger. Everyone gets what they want
    now, and the government gets screwed for a load of money later, which
    should give them a good excuse to raise taxes, cut benefits and
    services, or do whatever they want later. Just goes to show that the
    government can create and spend as much money as it wants, through
    whatever convoluted kind of deals and schemes it likes to set up, PFI
    and others, and yet if it doesn't want to spend money on something it
    can easily win any argument with the ever-popular protest of "we can't
    afford it".
     
    Tom Robinson, Sep 2, 2006
    #28
    1. Advertisements

Ask a Question

Want to reply to this thread or ask your own question?

You'll need to choose a username for the site, which only take a couple of moments (here). After that, you can post your question and our members will help you out.