New South Wales, U-Turns at signallised intersections.

To quell an argument (ahem, discussion) I'm having with some associates, I
would like to know if anyone knows of any real legally valid documents that
state that U-Turns are allowed at signalised intersections within New South Wales.


So far, I'm aware of the Australian Road Rules (which the RTA has adopted)
(http://www.rta.nsw.gov.au/rulesregulations/downloads/roadraustr_dl1.html)
Individual chapters, or, the entire kit and caboodle can be downloaded here.

...which state that they ARE allowed where signed so, however, there is an
RTA Technical Directive (99/23) that upheld the old existing no U-Turn at
signalised intersections past their adoption of the ARR.

(http://www.rta.nsw.gov.au/doingbusinesswithus/guidelines/documentregister/tdlist92to2000.html)
Shows the list, and 99/23 was introduced in October 1999, and not marked as
superseded (yet?). There is a link at the bottom to the PDF document if you like.

At this stage, I'm completely convinced (with documents to show it) that I'm
right, and everyone else is wrong (with nothing more than anecdotal evidence).
My mates are still not convinced of the errors of their ways, and appear to
still need some more "encouragement".


Now, before you try (because all my associates already have), I *DON'T* want
to know about your cousins next door neighbour who used to know a guy who's ex
girlfriend said she had passed a "U-Turn allowed" at some light intersection
sign somewhere up north, a bit up the no-mans road of where that old gum tree
with the initials "CS" carved in it used to be.
No, that's not going to work for me.

Also, I'm not interested in how one council in the middle of nowhere has
gone contrary to RTA rulings and posted up their own signs. I am well aware
this DOES happen, but I'm not interested in what one hick town does to make up
it's own rules:

I want legally enforceable documents. Or something from the RTA at least...

 

Correct. NSW has no such signs. QLD does. So, the picture still
conforms to the ARRs.

In short, in NSW - nope, can't legally do anywhere - the signs
don't exist in NSW.

 

LOL. The RTA must think drivers in NSW are absolute dumb shits... but I
suppose they must have some historical basis for that.

Nev..
'07 XB12X

 

Same in WA. No such signs.

Theo

 

Very true Nev. New South Walians have always been the absolute dumbshit drivers ever
since driving was invented

 

What a bunch of dickheads, they work fine in Qld. The sign is generally used
on multi lane roads where there is a right turn arrow, so safety is not a
concern. There's an intersection near me where the speed limit is 80 and U
turns are permitted at the lights.
huddo

 

Yep, the cockroaches are under the management of a bunch of dickheads.
U-turns at signals work well, are safe and help to manage congestion.

 

That makes the "No U Turn" at the lights near Rock's in town a bit of an
oxymoron then.

Working on logic I do u turns if I need to and there's no sign saying
its disallowed - assuming that 'no' signs were only posted where
required .. which appears wrong now.

 

Those lights were installed in the last few months, at most a year ago.

 

The download at the relevant area on the RTA site is October 1999.

Is there a later version? Or was that when you last downloaded it?

Good, that was my impression as well.

Thanks, I'll do that. So far though, is that EVERY time I've asked for an
exact location, or nearest cross street, or basically any street, I get (as
per usual) nothing. Though so far, it makes three unconfirmed accounts (that
I know about) for allowed U-Turns within NSW.
I'll push them harder for locations.

Purely out of interest, if it's allowed by law, but not by mere RTA policy,
why are people getting booked for even *thinking* about doing a U-Turn at lights?
Or does an RTA policy over-ride the law?

Noted, thanks.

 

Victoria has "U Turn Permitted - U turn must give way" signs at some
traffic light intersections.

The one at the intersection of the Calder Highway and Lockwood road is
an example.



G-S

 

But that's a reverse-catch-22 isn't it? A U-Turn will NEVER be allowed,
because the sign that specifically allows it, is never allowed to be shown in
the first place.

What's the difference with simply saying that U-Turns aren't allowed at all?
Because there should never be a condition where the allowance sign will ever
be shown.

 

Because the rule is australia wide and some states allow it

 

Nope - there is a single ARR, just like ADR that all states
must keep to. NSW has a problem with installing those
signs. They also have an increasing problem with removing
LTOR signs (I wanted one t'other side of intersectection
and they were all like "WTF is that there?!?! so it was
removed". So now the intersection has no LTOR signs.

The NSW RTA you really have to watch. Athol and Mot
AdV will tell you that.

Conforming to ARRs is not quite what you would think.

 

You're not wrong. It's more than just being a vague document that could be
interpreted in several ways, it's a right dog's breakfast.

 

This is an unnecessary sign and just provided at some intersections as a
reminder notice because by default every intersection has permitted
u-turn unless otherwise signposted and the following rule applies.
Where there is no slip lane on the intersecting road and the left turn
traffic has a green arrow, the traffic making a u-turn at a green arrow
must give way to the traffic which has a green arrow. Where the traffic
in the intersecting road has a slip lane, the left turning traffic must
give way to the u-turning traffic (standard give way to the right common
sense applies there).

Nev..
'07 XB12X

 

They must?

Nev..
'07 XB12X

 

]They will choose to opt out of what they can,
as long as still conforms.

 

WTF does that mean? They must conform or they might conform?

Nev..
'07 XB12X

 

Conforms. If the rules say there is a sign that you can, however
in the state you live (NSW, RTA) chooses not to put any signs
that you can anywhere in the state, then you can't. Conforms
as far as I can see.

Reasons why they don't install the signs that you can - is
a different topic for discussion.