NSW to act against bikie gang violence

A sane, informed and balanced analysis.

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Boxer

 

**** Doug, that brings back memories of the coppers in Melbourne in the late
1960's early 1970's.
They had those diagrams which they carried around with them in their cars
and I was one of the ones who got pulled over many times and had my
handlebars checked for shotty cartridges and firing mechanism.
I had one of those diagrams, but it has got lost in one of my moves
And it wan't only Harleys they pulled over, in fact, not many could afford a
Harley those days plus the fact there wasn't an official Harley importer
then.
Tom Hoffat in Richmond used to import one at a time, but he went out of it
around 1972 or so.

 

Did anyone catch Clive small on TV Thursday night saying two of the three
groups mentioned share responsibility for similar activites?

 

"unofficial" ??? what makes rockers "official" ??? Bikes are not
officials... They're peddling pure unadulterated control-freak shit.

Up here in the mountains flannel shirts are all the go. But we don't
form posses to cruise Campbell Parade Bondi looking for people wearing
flannel shirts and ordering them to remove them because that's our
"official" regalia. What a load of crap !!

"Earning" ??? Bwahahaha.... You rallly have been brainwashed.

I'd concede their right to object to people wearing the actual club
name if they're not memebers, but the rest is a control freak
stand-over racket.

You must be joking. Tell me you're joking...

If you say so. And so what? Rockers is just a name for a particular
shape of cloth with some writing on it. Nobody has a right to
exclusivity for that. I should be able to wear a similar shaped
cloth with different writing on it.

It's like saying the government can convict me for forgery of the
official currency becasue I happen to print a picture of Rudd kissing
Howard on a piece of paper which looks a bit like a ten dollar note.

Who gives those fuckwits the right to monster people for imitating
their dress style. Who the **** do they think they are?

And they have every right to do that. You might not like it, but
you're a psychopath if you then want o heavy them about it. And
you're clearly an apologist for psychopathic behaviour.

What exactly is it that they're proud of?

And when will they get over themselves?

No, I don't think they _do_ have a prerogative for being racist or
sexist. I don't think anyone does. I think your values are fucked
if you think they have a prerogative for that. Maybe you don't know
what prerogative means...


=================

Onya bike

Gerry

 

If it's not the official Ulysses patch as sanctioned by the Ulysses
Club, it's not official, therefore unofficial. OK?

Are rockers part of the official Ulysses regailia? No, they're not.

Yes. Earn, as in have worked for, and put in a lot of time for the club
doing duties as directed by members.

A boy scout can "earn" a merit badge.

A worker can "earn" a promotion.

An actor can "earn" a standing ovation.

Is there some other meaning of the word "earn" I'm not aware of?

Should we ask George if he felt he was harassed by you over his Vietnam
service?

Go right ahead.

A conviction for fraud would depend on whether you kept it in your
pocket or you actually tried to buy something with it.

If you tried to pass it off as legitimate currency, yes, you would be
charged with fraud.

They know who they are. It's the imitators that have an identity problem.

I'm not looking to heavy anyone. I'm merely pointing out the hypocrisy
of HOG club members in denouncing outlaws while simultaneously doing
everything they can to resemble them.

Why don't you ask them?

There are a lot of places and organisations in this country you or I
cannot enter or join because we are the wrong colour or the wrong sex.
There are often legitimate reasons for these restrictions.

Do you claim otherwise?

 

Well, one _could_ argue that soneone's club "uniform" is "unofficial"
or "unsanctioned" (do you notice the control-freakness built into such
thinking?), and maybe, by that particular club's rules they can take
action against one of their own members for breaking their own club's
rules.

But that is a red herring. We're debating whether a club can monster
people who do not belong to that club, for wearing clothing styles (or
uniform styles) which look somewhat similar.

Most of the armies in the world have very similar looking uniforms and
insignia. But you don't see Agentinia attacking Estonia because of
similarities in "dress code".

So? That would, at best, be an _internal_ issue for the Ulysses
club to sort out. It's no one else's business... It certainly has
nothing to do with other clubs.

No. But you're being disingenuaous and coy here, Doug. Would you
care to give us a list of _all_ the unsavoury, illegal, or violent
activities, which you've become aware of over the years, which outlaw
clubs make their wannabes perform in order to "earn" their rockers?

They're hardly comparable to boy scouts, are they?

You're obfuscating.

Asking him to give us some tangible clues as to his genuine veteran
status is hardly the same as threatening someone with serious physical
violence becasue they have chosen to imitate your "uniform's" style.

You're trying to argue that apples are oranges. Give it up.

The point is that I should be able to do so without fear of getting
done over by a bunch of bike-riding stand-over thugs.

You must have a very dodgy moral compass if you can't see anything
wrong with what those fuckchops get up to.

Oh fur phuque's sake! Are you really so dense that you can't see what
I was getting at here?

It's not about actualcurrency. If I rode around with REAL Comanchero
rockers, I'd say they have a right to chat me up about that. But If
I wear a patch of cloth that looks a bit similar in style to the
Comanchero rockers, but which actually says "If it feels good, do it",
the Comancheros would be totally out of order for telling me I can't
wear it.

Why are you defending control-freak stand-over thugs, Doug? Is it
because you feel a certain kinship and sympathy with such a mentality?

Imitation is the highest form of flattery. For this you get done
over? You still don't get that these dudes are psychpaths on bikes,
do you? Why are you defending their monstrous actions? Is it
because deep down you're a wannabe power-crazy, control-freak
stand-over thug yourself? I don't get why you cant see these guys for
what they are, and why you defend the indefensible.

They're off the fucking plantet, man!

You're spinning this debate away fronm the core issue again. The core
issue is that if I, for whatever reason, choose to wear similar
looking, but clearly distinct, "regalia", only a control-freak
stand-over thug would presume it to be their right to try to prevent
me from doing so by threatening (or actually doing) physical violence,
or any other stand-over tactic.

That's the issue here. That's the only issue here.

Why don't you tell us, Mr Outlaws Advocate. Come on, give us a bit
of stunning oratory about what the **** these thugs ar so proud of?
You say the media and the police keep telling us fibs, well here's
your chance to tell us the truth...

So??? One mob does the wrong thing and that makes it ok for another
mob to do it? Is that REALLY where your moral compass points?

Oh yeah!!! Bwahahahaha... Do TELL us what legitimate reasons there
are for outlaw clubs to conduct themselves in racist annd sexist ways?

Are you still beating your wife?

I would query the accuracy of the use of the word "often" in your
question.

=================

Onya bike

Gerry

 

On Sun, 22 Feb 2009 06:09:11 +1000, Toosmoky wrote:


[...]

Of course you are quite correct. You can often trace the reasons,
legitimate or otherwise, back to some nasty form of racism or class
distinction though.
One has to wonder about human nature. Is there some mystical master
plan that leads us to eventual racial purity?(1) Or we all just
selfish pricks spoiling for a fight?

--
Mr H
1. Like Hitler thought, thus subtly Godwinning this thread(2)
2. Waiting for self righteous pricks to bluster about freedom of the
Innaweb thingy(3)
3. Can't happen of course, said SRPs can't see a thing (4)
4. Wish the weather would clear up - going a bit balmy here, I am .

 

I'd say that racism is when members of one race arrogantly think that
their race is better than another race and justifying their attempt to
subjugate the othe race.

I'd say that sexism is when members of one sex arrogantly think their
sex is the superior sex and justifying their attempt to subjugate the
other sex.

Both "isms" are about arrogance and subjugation. You could even say
that arrogance seeks to subjugate.

How am I doing?

=================

Onya bike

Gerry

 

Every club/society/community has rules. If you have no rules, you have
chaos. That may be the ultimate freedom but it won't make for a cohesive
club/society/community.

Like tending the bar until the last guest has left, guarding the bikes,
etc. while members party?

I've never seen anything illegal, unsavoury or violent required of
prospective members.

You're dribbling.

No, I'm arguing that both apples and oranges are fruit.

Lots of blokes do exactly that. They just happen to be other motorcycle
clubs.

Anyone has the right to put up a patch. Anyone can tell you to take it
off. Whether you do take it off is up to you. If you do take it off,
you're obviously not that committed to your choice.

I've not seen these psychopathic, monstrous, power-crazy, control-freak,
stand-over thugs of which you speak.

If you think my position is extreme, well, you might want to stand back
a bit and look at yours.

If a law has been broken, the law can deal with it. No one is arguing
that anyone has a "right" to do anything illegal.

I can't speak for them. I'm not one of them. I'm merely responding to
your ill-informed, highly emotional rants against them. Think of me as a
Devil's advocate.

You haven't established that it's wrong for them to do so in the first
place.

They have the right to exclude anyone they want from club membership.
That isn't racist or sexist any more than it's racist to exclude white
people from aboriginal organisations or lands or sexist to exclude men
from women's organisations.

I've never been married.

 

Basically, humans tend to want to congregate with people who are like
themselves. Right or wrong, it's innate to a greater or lesser degree
within all of us.

It's not "tolerance" we should be striving for, it's "acceptance".

 

I think that's my point. There's hierarchal tiers:

On top: Humanity.
Next: Your nation,
Next: Your culture, your ethnicity, your goup, your club.

Forgetting the top one, becasue we would disagree on what the ruled
for humanity ought to be, we get to Nation.

A nation has laws. And those laws over-ride any conflicting laws
within a culture, ethnicity, group or club.

It is this nation's laws which say that if you have a problem with
another group, you don't take matters into your won hands, you don't
threaten, you don't use physical violence. What you do is you seek
redress through the law of the land. Other than that, you learn to
live and let live.

But that's not how the control freak thugs in the outlaw clubs see it,
is it,Doug?

This whole conflict thing about colours rockers and patches is no
different than the conflicts between (say) the Serbs and the Croats
in this country. You'd be the first to tell them to settle their
conflicts according to, and within, the laws of this land. Ditto the
bikie thing.

Get over it, Doug...

I said "become aware of". What are you? Sgt Schultz? "I know
nothing!!!" ?? Yeah... right... All of a sudden you've led a
sheltered life... You're bullshitting, Doug. And the whole frigging
world can see it.

Including the Hog and Ulysses?

You're being totally dishonest here. You pretend that no stand-over
tactics, intimidation, threats, or actual physical violence is
associated with "telling you to take it off".

I notice you don't seem to have a problem with them being TOLD to take
them off, rather than being REQUESTED.

See, Doug, right there we have the mark of the control-freak. He
TELLS you to do it, he doesn't ASK you to do it. Your moral compass
is still spinning wildly, while you _think_ you're heading home, old
boy...

Yes, the lobotomising effect of peer group "normality" is a lot like
that. So is denial...

My position is that the outlaw clubs haven't got the right to heavy
other bike clubs who like to wear their own club colours, rockers, and
patches.

My position is that there is nothing in our State or Federal laws
which prohibits them from doing this, and until laws are made which
prohibit inlaw clubs from wearing colours, rockers and patches, they
have every right to do so and outlaws can go and get fucked.

And now youtell me that THIS is an extreme position? Yor moral
compass is spinnning again, Douggie...

So, the Ulysses club and the Harly Owners Group can, if they so wish,
design and wear their own group colours, rockers and patches without
any fear of being threatened, stood-over, or attacked by any Outlaw
clubs?

One of us is being less than frank here, Douggie... Guess who that
is... Ya bullshit artist... You're full of it...

Nah.. I think of you as a piss weak bullshit artist who sticks up for
bike-riding crims and bullies. A sicko's sycophant. A wannabe head
kicker in search of a gang to hide out in. A dude who gets off on
fear and intimidation.

That's how I see you.

What other concluseion can I arrive at after this amazing display of
"hear no evil, see no evil, speak no evil" crap from a dude who knocks
around with these guys, once wanted to join one of their clubs, and
may well be their "official" tatooist. Such a guy doesn't "hear no
evil" or "see no evil", but I can well understand the sycophantic
nature of such a bloke leading him to shut the **** up and "speak no
evil".

Scared they'll do you, Douggie?

Bwahahahahaha...

If you can't figure out what's wrong with racism and sexism, my
explanation woudl just go wooshies right over your head. Another
clear sign your moral compass is fucked.

Not if it's on the basis of their raceor their gender.

There are exceptions made to provide refuge and safety.

Are you honestly going to tell me these bikie gangs are afraid of
non-whites or women?

Bwahahahaha...

No... It's because they consider themselves superior to non-whites
and women. They like to control non-whites and women.

Is that why you're so drawn to these "soul brothers" of yours,
Douggie?

Is that why you can see no evil, hear no evil and speak no evil? It
certainly isn't becasue thes fuckwits are as pure as the driven snow,
I can tell you that much...

Bwahahahaha.. You're a joke... A bullshitting joke...


=================

Onya bike

Gerry

 

Yes, and some have learned (evolved ???) to identify with other people
based, not on race or gender, but on things a bit more cerebral than
the colour of their skin or what gender they might be...

D'oh...

Here in OzMoto, for instance, it's the size of a man's bike and his
best time around Eastern Creek (Small Dick Syndrome [SDS]???). Sadly
women are still relegated to being pliant and submissive beer wenches
(and loving it...) Not a HUGE mark of evolutionary progress, but in
other places, even more evolved beings reside...

Perhaps your kind are nearing extinction, Douggie? About time, I'd
say...

Go on, Douggie... Fess up... You still pine for the good old days,
back in the Stone Age, when your manhood would be measured (by your
Neanderthal mates) by the number women you've clubbed and dragged back
into your cave in order to have your "charismatic" way with them
before discussing Tolstoy...

Bwahahahaha.... [choke]

How can you have acceptance without tolerance? I suspect you might
have weird meaning for "acceptance".


=================

Onya bike

Gerry

 

I speak the truth. Your accusations have no basis in reality, but then,
neither do you most of the time...

No, your position is that outlaw clubs are entirely made up of
"psychopathic, monstrous, power-crazy, control-freak, stand-over thugs".
I'd call that an extreme position.

That's not my experience. YMMV.

So argued some members of the Ulysses club. Even down to the outlaws
"can go and get fucked" part.

It was requested of them on more than one occasion, following which, one
club contacted the Ulysses hierarchy and invited them to a meeting to
explain their position. The Ulysses club then issued an edict to members
directing them to remove any rockers under threat of expulsion.

No-one got hurt, no violence occurred.

It's a fearful place, this world inside your head.

You are a scared and angry little mentally broken social outcast with a
Quixotic grudge against the world because you can't deal with your own shit.

That's how I see you.

 

Never heard of Mandy Beales then? Has she got a small dick or a big one?

Get the Doc to double your medication, you angry little man.

 

Yes, it was a nice friendly, amicable discussion. Hugs and kisses all
round. No threats of war or violence were issued. No standover
tactics were employed, Just a friendly "chat". The Rebels, are,
after all, a quiet, law abiding, non-violent macrame club, right?

You're fucking deluded, Douggie...

And that wouldn't be because the Ulysses, Zimmer frames and colostomy
bags notwithstanding, decided to back down rather than risk serious
retribution? You really think it was a non-treatening, amicable
chat?

You're fucking deluded, Douggie..

Nothing to be afraid of. Come in for a firendly chat some time...

And Outlaw gangs are nice, law abiding, non-threatening, non-violent
amenable, gentle, reasonable, psychologically well adjusted angels.
You're fucking deluded, Douggie...

Actually, I don't think you're deluded. I think you have rubbed
shoulders with them enough to know _exactly_ what they are.

You're just a self-appointed spin doctor on their behalf. In other
words, you're a bullshit artist. A piss-weak bullshit artist who has
a vested interest in whitewashing the image of a bunch of thugs and
crims and their toadies. All that remains is to try to figure out WHY
you're so driven to pepple the ridiculous Outlaw propaganda you do.

So what are you, Douggie? A thug, a crim, or a toady? Which is it?





=================

Onya bike

Gerry

 

Diogenes wrote:

Gerry, you could be in real trouble is that good bloke Zebee catches up
with you.

regards,
CrazyCam

 

TSOHF ???

Maybe YOU could use the medication...


=================

Onya bike

Gerry

 

Yebbutt, yebbutt, yebbutt... I was trolling for Betty.

=================

Onya bike

Gerry

 

Witch, Gerry - beer WITCH.

betty ;-)

 

Oh... THERE you are...


=================

Onya bike

Gerry