NSW: tolling issues

from the MCC delegates list:


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MOTORCYCLE COUNCIL OF NSW

At the Road Users Summit, I took up the issue of tolls and E-tags.
I had the opportunity to discuss this with the major toll road operators,
RTA and Costa.
Tolling motorcycles is a major technological problem.
I kept telling them, we WANT to pay a toll, BUT the the CORRECT toll (1/3rd
of car rate)
Also, that we are not prepared to pay for the failures or shortcomings of
their technology.


A proposal:-

Add $2 to your rego and no toll.

This provides a "pool" of cash that can be divvied up amongst the toll
operators based on traffic volumes and percentage of motorcycles in the
traffic mix. Currently, motorcycles are about 1% of general traffic flows.

Yes, it means that some people would pay for, but never use a toll road, but
it means you can, whenever.

Can I have feedback on this please? ASAP. I need to get a letter to Costa
in the next few days as a follow up.

At what price added to rego do we say no?

This proposal may be attractive, as it avoids expensive infrastructure and
all sorts of technology steps, hence they don't need to pay for all those
gantries, aerials, cameras, software, back-office functions and software
development, meetings, intra-operability issues and "stuff" just to capture
motorcycles.

I need answers from all Delegates ASAP

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Still doesn't deal with interstate riders, but otherwise I'm happy
especially if it's for all tollgates.

Even if it's only for the cross city and the M4 East, it would be Ok for
me.

How do people in the sticks unlikely to ever use a tollroad feel?
Remember, it might also cover the new ringroad around Sydney.

Zebee

 

Hey Zeebee

As a motorcylist in Sydney, the idea sounds great. $2 for tolls all year!
Woohoo! Somehow I think it might need to be a bit more than that to satisfy.
I don't have the figures, but what kinda money figure do we need to put on
rego to break even with the current stats on moto usage for tolls?

Anyway, I'd be up for paying a few extra bucks (no more than $15) per year
if it meant that I didn't have to worry about fumbling with change and/or an
e-tag as well. We may only make up 1% of the traffic, and then I'd say we
also make up about 10% of the damage to the roads that a car would, if that!
Kinda like trucks might use it say 10%, but they make far more damage than a
car does to the road in general. When's the last time you saw a moto going
over a pothole and sucking the dirt out of it?

Perhaps it could be applied to the demographic that live in Sydney and
surrounds, and not all motorcyclists? Would this be a little fairer? Say
draw a 200km radius around sydney and go "ok, you guys will be paying the
extra" and all those outside get off for free? Might address the issue of
people living out in the sticks having to pay for something they most likely
will not use.

Cam

 

FuTAnT wrote:

Cam replied to Zeebee
I add my bit for what its worth

As a"bushie" I would never use it, but the idea is still a good one

Trucks pay $7.10 a go on the M5 (cars pay $3.30), that costs me $15.20 a
day,$5411.20 per year, yes my truck does it everyday of the year, twice
a day, so I think they pay their way, also rego is over $4500 per year.

one in all in

Mick Chester
Cootamundra

 

Zebee Johnstone wrote<quoting Guy S. of MCC):

I wish Guy would stop helping.......

He may want to pay a toll, I don't.

Oh dear. Why do I feel another of those fucking miraculous _wins_
coming on?

Who is kidding who?

The RTA ain't gonna jack up rego by a couple of dollars.
Twenty dollars, maybe....two hundred, possible, but two! No bloody way.
:-(

Oh right....

This is every bit as counter productive as those folk that joyously
expound how good their e-tag works on their motorcycles.

It isn't our problem.

We shouldn't be helping them.

I'd rather have a front number plate than pay for tollroads in rego.

Isn't that the "I'm all right, Jack" attitude that I was accused of?
;-)

Living in the sticks of Beecroft, I hate the idea.

With four registered bikes, I don't want to use any of their bloody
tollways on any of them.

Why should I pay (x4) for stuff I don't want.

regards,
CrazyCam

 

Like hell it will be $2.00. What CrazyCam said.

Well, toll roads are such a massive fucking inconvenience that
I just work hard at avoiding them like the plague. I could get
to work and the airport and stuff faster if I did use them.

I'd use the HLY road ('HLY' is the ASX code, dunno what it's
called, the one that goes from North Ryde up past Cam's place)
and the bridge and the eastern distributor maybe 2-3 times a
year each if I didn't have to piss about with tolls. As it is,
I might use the bridge southbound three times a year (and two
of those will be in the car). I just go around gladesville way
when I want to go southbound. It's nearly three times the
distance as using the bridge from my place to the city, but
no messing about with tolls.

I'd pay maybe $40 a year (and probably make a loss as compared
to what I would if I paid tolls every time I would use the
tollways) for a magic ticket or something that meant I didn't
have to fiddle about with getting gloves off, coins in and out
of pockets, etc, etc.

That number would, for me, drop to $20/year (which is probably
all I'd use the toll roads at list prices anyway) if it was
coming out of rego, 'cos the gubmint would be pulling almost
as big a profit out of that as they do from below-ADR toleranced
speeding find and property sales stamp duties!

It does. They don't pay. The $2-$20 on the local's rego funds
the very occasional visit by out-of-towners too.

"I'm all right Jack"


GB

 

Having a fair idea of how the mind of the RTA works I do not agree
with adding anything to the rego fees.

Yes we should pay but we should not be suggesting a principle that can
(and I believe will) be abused in future years.

 

No, and I'm not just saying that because I very rarely use 'em. It places
the ball in their court. They save all the costs of implementing measures
to net one percent of the traffic flow and reap all the benefits. Once
agreed to in principal you can bet your balls the costs will blow out.

I'd be pointing them in the direction of London or, closer to home,
Melbourne where bikes travel free and ease congestion. Of course, the
dollar rules over common sense and practicality so if a scheme such as
this was introduced then they can take it out of the exorbitant costs we
already pay for green slips! Leave my rego alone.

Failing that, what's so hard about keeping one lane with a booth for
tourists and infrequent users?

 

That would be for 2.140845 trips per day then?

Theo

 

Yep, for sure, they do pay their way. So for a motorcycle to pay out way,
we'd only have to pay say $1 per visit instead or perhaps even less. I
wasn't meaning trucks should pay more, just that motorcyclists do very
little (almost zero) damage/wear/tear to the road.

 

DOH!!!!!!
thats why Ileave the books to my wife !!

 

They could add $10 to our rego and use for all tolls and I would be happy

AND I rarely use tolls

 

I'm against adding anything to one cost to cover another, especially when adding
to a govt cost to fund a private company cost. I don't think the govt should be
granted that kind of freedom in any manner at all. It only invites the vultures.

The toll/bike issue should be handled in house with the toll operators setting
up something that works, like a bike/visitor lane, or getting rid of the bike
toll and claiming the money back off the tollway road repair budget.

Considering that I hardly ever use the tollways (I'm only in Sydney 9 or 10
times a year for a work meeting with M4 in and out = $44 approx annually), I'm
not interested in paying for an e-tag which would cost four years of my normal
use with tolls and bank fees on top. And I have never been on a tollway on a
bike.

Kim

 

Dr.Shifty said....

I have to ask - in NSW, how much of your roads are tollways? And what
has the government being doing to all the money that you pay in taxes,
that other states use to build freeways?

 

I agree with this one. Although I live in QLD I have traveled over the
bridge once on my bike: I was so busy looking for the sign for which lane to
be in for the direction I needed to go in, I ended up going through an
automatic booth with no change only notes. Boy was the guy behind me pissed.
I believe an Etag system for bikes is the way to go at a drastically reduced
price - no fumbling in pockets, dropping coins because you're trying to get
money out with gloves on. Here in Brisbane I often go over the Gateway
Bridge $1.10 for bikes, $2.20 for cars. It used to be easy until they
brought in GST - a straight $1 for bikes and $2 for cars.

 

Tim said....

So, NSW people don't pay any state taxes at all? No fuel tax on top of
what the federal government levies (GST and excise), for example?

 

In NSW they woulda made it easier and jacked it up to $3 even for both!

 

All the states say that. Me, I trust Honest Johnny, and his smirky mate.

Theo

 

And Income Tax. How come they call it Income Tax when it comes Out of my
pocket?

Theo

 

Yeah you pay tax, then you pay more tax, then you pay more tax, and when you
finally thought they couldn't possibly tax you any more the cunts tax you
again.