OT.. Do we or Do We Not ?

Issues of importance are being addressed in our state and nation.. The
election year of 2004 is crucial to the way of life that we have enjoyed
since this country began.. As bikers, citizens and consumers, we all try to
survive and enjoy whatever degree of success that we can achieve for our
families as well as ourselves.. The ones we elect to represent us in our
government are failing us on both sides of the aisle.. The corruption in our
government is obvious to us all .. One example, and I will address only one
issue, although there are many, is the re-districting measure that was
forced on all Texans, at great, un-necessary expense.. Sub-committes were
assigned to go to various parts of the state to "sell" the proposal and to
get feed-back from the constituents.. During the house's sub-committee's
visits with the constituents, the opposition registered approximately 92%
opposition to the proposal, as it was, then.. During the senate's
sub-committee meetings, the same results.. Many spoke in opposition to the
proposal, a few spoke in favor.. Again.. both sides of the aisle were
represented by the speakers.. I spoke in opposition .. I also heard some
very impressive republican speakers address those sub-committees in
opposition to the proposal.. When the declarations of support or opposition
were brought back to Austin and placed in front of the speaker of the house,
Tom Craddick.. his ruling was that they would be disregarded and the state
would pursue re-districting..What ? The people had spoken, Mr. Speaker.. The
measure was then passed to the Senate and the sub-committees were on the
road again.. Where is the representation "of the people" ? After the senate
sub-committee reported the same results of the house committee, the bill was
pushed forward by calling two "special sessions" by the governor.. Tell me,
Mr. Perry, at what point do you represent YOUR constituents.. Seems that 92%
of them were opposed to this proposal.. Does that remaing 8% represent
democracy to you, or does the decisions of Tom DeLay constitute the
majority, and we just haven't heard about it, yet ? Several of our good
republican representatives washed their hands of this travesty and declined
any participation in any part of it..Whether you opposed or supported
re-districting is unimportant, what you should be more than concerned about
is the rubber stamp government representatives which we have allowed to
become controllers of our government..Rick Perry nor Tom DeLay did not elect
any of these people to represent us, "WE DID".. We elected them to represent
US.. Not to rubber stamp any legislation that is the political dream child
of any corrupt politician who would exploit our democracy..Support of those
corrupt politicans is demeaning to us all and will ultimately destroy our
democratic form of government.. Representation for the purpose of political
agendas is not what the founding fathers designed for us.. Until we get back
to basics of our own stewardship of that democracy, we can only look forward
to more of the same.. Thanks for your attention, if you have gotten this
far..

Your friend in Irving
Bill Walker

 

During this election year.. perhaps you might ask yourself exactly what
contribution you can make.. Your participation would be greatly
appreciated..Make your voice heard and help to make a difference.. Questions
of "heads out of your ass" only impress yourself and is an exercise in
futility.. Welcome aboard and let's go to work if you would like to make a
"difference".. Thanks..

Your friend in Irving
Bill Walker

 

I tend to agree (except on the socialist part).

I also agree with Bill W. that this is NOT the time to sit by and just
complain. Under current circumstances failure to act against the
current administration is a vote to continue with what we got.

Oma
Walk with many, follow The One.
(to email, change nospam to w000023)

 

I can only respond to this post by my esteemed colleague and trusted,
companion and friend by saying that his tastes in pickups and political
candidates is far from being of immaculate.. Upon receiving the report from
our committee to investigate such matters, it is reported that one of our
very own has been observed frequenting both the Long John Silver's and A&W
Root Beer, as well as the Whataburger.. Charles Soto and a lady of very
questionable character, named Beth were seen eating jalapeno burgers with
fries, after transporting two large root beer floats from the LJS and A&W
establishment to the Whataburger joint.. It is reported that their
conversation was not able to be overheard, as the sounds of their eating was
too loud for the monitors to pick up very much.. After the meal, they
departed in separate vehicles, she.. in some kind of unidentified "little"
pickup and Soto left on an unidentifiable motorcycle with a squirrel's tail
swinging from the tail light.. Highly suspicious activity and must be looked
into at once.. Thank you for your support..

The Grand Wizardly Supreme (compassionate and concerned) Exalted Moderator
in Irving
Bill Walker

 

Can I have my choice... pick me .. pick me.. My hand has been up for the
past three years...

 

I was under the impression that it had been largely capitalist. It has
been a while since my school days, but I learned that socialism had
primarily to do with who owns the means of production. In a
capitalist system ownership is in the hands of private individuals,
families, small groups. A socialist system has ownership in the hands
of the community. An NFL example of capitalism at work would be the
Dallas Cowboys. A more socialist example would be the Green Bay
Packers (I understand the team is owned by the citizens of GB.)

Another primary element of socialist theory is/was that the working
class rules.

Help me out, please.

We can't vote someone or something OUT without voting something or
someone IN. Who do you recommend? (If you've made recommendations
elsewhere please forgive me for asking you to post them again.)

Oma
Walk with many, follow The One.
(to email, change nospam to w000023)

 

Charles votes for Ficus. I'm not saying this is a bad thing...when
there's no other options...and lately there's no other options.

Keep in mind, Ficus won in New Jersey a couple years ago...but they
wouldn't count the votes for Ficus when they realized how bad the
other candidate lost. Sad, huh?

 

A Ficus is too close to a Bush for me.

Oma
Walk with many, follow The One.
(to email, change nospam to w000023)

 

The NFL maybe a bad analogy, or it maybe good. The owners share in the
wealth of the NFL. Each gets a percentage of the others take when playing
in the stadium. They also share the wealth when getting sponsors
(advertisers), TV contracts, and radio spots. So in a small sense its
socialism, but at the upper levels so owners not quite making ends meet at
team level will still get more money. But its capitolism too, the supply
and demand, if the supply is there and the demand is low the owner will move
the team to another location or fire all the coaching staff and try to find
a way to get demand.

Our society is also based on this. We are based in capitolism, the supply
and deman for a profit. However we do offer services and pay to those that
need it, sort of a socialist redistribute the wealth (but on a much smaller
scale).

Lets all vote libertarian and freak em all out. That's a true capitolist
group. As a government they would take nothing from you and in return
provide the same nothing for you to live with. If you couldn't work for
whatever reason, their government would make sure you would receive nothing.
Capitolism at its finest.

Better yet vote for anarchy. Absolutely no one show up at the polls to
vote. Talk about politicans going nuts. Let them try and figure that one
out. ;-)

 

First off, sorry this reply is to such an old message. Several of my
replies seem to have gotten misplaced somehow.

I'm not really well educated on the ins and outs of the NFL. I just
remembered hearing about the ownership of the Packers and find it
fascinating.

Capitalism is not the same thing as "supply and demand". Supply and
demand has to do with market value of product. Capitalism/socialism
has to do with who owns the means of production and distribution.

I did hear a man say once that Karl Marx's biggest mistake was that he
underestimated the power of greed. That, to me, indicates a pretty
poor reading of Marx.

That's not really a fair characterization of libertarianism, in my
view -- it's more of a caricature.

I STILL like the "None of the above" option.

Oma
Walk with many, follow The One.
(to email, change nospam to w000023)

 

The objective of the original post was to emphasize the point that our
democracy has been siezed by corrupt politicians who have contempt for the
constituents which elected them.. Much of the fault for this lies directly
on the doorstep of those voters .. Lack of attention and oversight by those
constituent voters has allowed the corrupt interests to gain financial
control of those incumbents.. Campaign donations and outright bribery by the
corrupt interests, combined with the constuentcy being unaware of how the
democratic system works in real time, has lost our democracy to those
corrupted politicians and their equally corrupt financial backers.. Much of
this can be attributed to the leadership of our parties.. Republican and
Democrat.. The Republicans realized, years ago, that their candidates
couldn't gain a plurality and control without the financial wherewithal to
financially overwhelmn the opposition party.. The party commenced attacking
the Democratic Party for accepting money from organized labor (sp Unions)..
Think about this one for a moment.. Any union that I ever had anything to do
with was the most democratic organization in existence.. Membership votes
for every issue.. even the choices for elective office.. If you work for a
living, Mr. and Mrs. America.. YOU are LABOR.. While these attacks were
being waged against organized labor political contributions and/or support,
those same Republicans were assembling some of the most corrupt
administrators in the corporate world to finance a rise to power, never
equalled in our history.. This plan and process has evolved over a period of
something like 25 years and is virtually in place.. The next step in the
process is to control ALL branches of our government.. minimizing the input
from the constituents.. We see the end result in some of the actions and
policies of this president.. He appoints federal judges without benefit of
"Advise and Consent".. In fact .. his appoints men who have been challenged
and the appointments are contrary to "Advise and Consent".. The judiciary is
virtually an extension of the Executive branch of government.. ALL
Republicans do not agree nor consent to this agenda of this administration..
some are even revolting against it, as they begin to see clearly, the
direction .. We as constituents have allowed this to happen, we haven't cast
our votes wisely nor judged the true characters of the men we choose to
represent us.. The leadership of the Democratic party, especially in our
state of Texas, have meekly stood by and allowed the democratic constituents
to become unheard voices in our government.. That .. again is the fault of
the voters.. We have not demanded the representation that we have placed our
confidence and money into.. During the majority of the gatherings of the
leadership of the Democratic party, the main topic of conversation will be
all the announcements and plans to rent elaborate and expensive ballrooms in
which to hold their next meeting or convention.. Before adjournment, the
requests will be made for financial donations of support.. Meantime.. we
have qualified and very viable candidates losing election after election,
because they cannot compete financially with the party financed opponents..
These good and honest Democratic candidates are not being defeated because
they lack the integrity, courage or desire to be true representatives of
their constituents .. they are being defeated because they are overwhelmned
financially..The leadership of the Democratic party holds their conventions
in those elaborate ballrooms while their candidates get their brains beat
out at the polls.. As citizens, bikers, consumers and voters.. we are being
betrayed because we lack the wisdom to recognize the lack of integrity in
our leaders.. No polls or articles make this opinion in my mind.. these
opinions come from actual, on the ground observation and experience.. Do We
or Do we Not.. demand representation from these hollow and corrupt leaders
of our parties, state and nation..

Your friend in Irving
Bill Walker

 

On Tue, 02 Mar 2004 19:39:58 GMT, "Bill Walker"

By definition and without fail, government by the people dies when the
people don't participate. Whenever that happens, the vultures gather.

Didn't I hear recently of Gov. Arnold of California attending a dinner
in NYC that was HALF A MILLION DOLLARS a plate?!

I tend to agree. Even unions, however, are not immune to corruption.

You are correct, sir. And even if he is not the first to do it, it is
still contrary to the constitutional principal.

Yes, sir. All too often, people are just too busy doing other things.
And yes, sometimes those "other things" are such basic things as
scrambling just to make ends meet.

We've not demanded it, and I fear we have not adequately supported the
ones who've stuck their necks out.

If we don't demand it, we can't legitimately expect it. Can we?

Oma
Walk with many, follow The One.
(to email, change nospam to w000023)

 

<snip>

The founders gave us a system of Democracy.. Not perfect, but workable ..
One of the concerns was that we would have the integrity and courage to
protect and improve it.. We've failed, sadly.. We've allowed the most
corrupt leaders in history to lead our nation.. We are paying for it and
we'll be paying for it for many generations.. It is our responsibility to
take it back and turn it into the hands where it belongs.. With the people..
It isn't the responsibility of anyone else, especially not the
responsibility of John Kerry or any of the other politicians who ask for our
vote.. When I look a senator or congressman or a state representative in the
eye and remind him that he works for me, the look on his face is of dread
and fear.. Our system has never been designed as a one party system.. It is
designed to accomodate two or more parties.. Checks and Balances.. That is
only going to be a memory unless we take our government back..

Your friend in Irving
Bill Walker

 

Actually they gave us a Representative Republic. A much better solution
than the "oppression of the majority" which is democracy.

--

Mark Johnson, Fort Worth, Texas; IBA #?; CM #1; DoD #2021
2003 FJR1300 "E²"

http://www.bikes-n-spikes.org

 

Thank you very much.

It bears repeating. We in the US do not live in a democracy. Never
did, doubt we will.

Thanks again for the reminder.

Oma
Walk with many, follow The One.
(to email, change nospam to w000023)

 

Actually they gave us a Representative Republic. A much better solution

I say again, "representative republic", over.

 

Republics are inherently representative. It's part of the definition of the
word "republic". It's the essential nature of a republic. No need to say it
twice. That's like saying "a slow crawl" or "stupid moron".
A word pair like these is called a hyponym.

There are other types of republics, representative in nature, but not
intrinsically democratic. An example would be the government that is being
set up in Iraq. It is a republic, but the representatives are appointed.

Bill is right to call our government a democratic republic. Moreso, it is a
constitutional democratic republic, to differentiate it further from other
types of democratic republics like the Roman Republic.

That's all I have to say on the matter. Governmental crap gives me a
headache.

 

Constrained from mob rule by the Constitution; which constrains
governmental power instead of defining or restricting individual rights.

--

Mark Johnson, Fort Worth, Texas; IBA #?; CM #1; DoD #2021
2003 FJR1300 "E²"

http://www.bikes-n-spikes.org