OT Funeral readings

And you do this because your "belief" is (engendered through your
training, inclinations and experience) that this is reliable (in
general).

Indeed it is. And very very reliable (within it's boundaries).

Wrong. No 'non-theistic' amount of explaining.. Sure you can postulate
it all in terms of the selfish gene and pack instinct but it's pretty
much hardwired into the human mindset.

Of course if there is a God (and remember - with your scientific method
running you can't say that there isn't one - merely that you have no
evidence for one - which for you may be good enough to say "I don't
have any evidence for a God" but not enough to say "there is no God")
then all bets are off..

Why? They both use the same parts of the brain, they both exist in
order to (in their purest sense) derive a sense of place in the world.

Phil.

 

Aye, there was. But I like to think of them as two separate, but
complimentary, attitudes.

 

Then you do analyse. So for you it's the degree of analysis that others
do (ie none in the "world is out to get me") that you object to?

If so then surely you can appreciate that others prefer to analyse more
(and use different terms to do it).

Ah. OK.

Phil.

 

Complete and utter tosh. Faith in supernatural entities has been/is
being replaced, for sure, although not fast enough. But the idea of
"faith in science" is a non-starter.

What's to know?

--
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..'_/_|_\_'. Ace (b.rogers at ifrance.com)
\`\ | /`/ DS#8 BOTAFOT#3 SbS#2 UKRMMA#13 DFV#8 SKA#2 IBB#10
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"Sometimes I sits and thinks, and sometimes I just sits."

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| Pete Fisher at Home: |
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Little about transcendance requires that you lose sense of who you
are.

I too have never been unaware (even in the couple of times I've been
drunk - and I've never been comatose-drunk) of self. And that includes
while meditating during listening to music.

My brother tried with me. Didn't appear to do anything. But other than
that I've not tried[1].

Phil.

[1] I distrust hypnosis deeply - you are short-circuiting the
discrimination filters that you put over the senses and mind. Hence
I've never gone for it.

 

I like CDM, Bourneville and Marmite.

But G&B is chocolate for people who Try Too Hard. And it's fucking rank,
too.

 

"i spread my brains out on the table and push them about with a fork".

 

When you absolutely, positively, need to listen to some grindcore...

 

Most commendable. "Use it or lose it." So ultimately, you don't care
which "side" of the argument prevails? A 306B reference is hard to
resist at this point.


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| Pete Fisher at Home: |
| Voxan Roadster Gilera Nordwest * 2 Yamaha WR250Z |
| Gilera GFR * 2 Moto Morini 2C/375 Morini 350 "Forgotten Error" |
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Because it's not an exclusive set. A lot of people who *do* know how
science works also take stuff on faith - stuff outside their speciality
especially.

Maybe not now - but that's as the result of a great deal of public
'failures of science' (like MMR, DDT use etc etc) rather than the
attitude itself.

And he was believed because he was a "scientist" and "had the
research".

And as a result millions of kids probably didn't have the combined jab.

And that's a *very* good example of 'science as religion' because the
people who believed him fit mostly into the "I believe it because a
scientist said so"

They are trusted right up until they fall flat on their face.

Phil

 

That fucking Canadian gets everywhere.

 

AKA "Ace disagrees".

So prove it. Or rather - accept the evidence as presented by many
people who have thought about it a good deal.

Just think about this: science equates to evidence yes? So where the
evidence is unavailable or unreachable (how many people understand very
little of the evidence?) why should those people rely on science?

You are still thinking about this from a process viewpoint rather than
a person viewpoint.

Phil.

 

Less blood on the floor than the original "panem et circenses" quote
though..

And very enjoyable. They've livened up a boring server-build..

Phil

 

That's more to do with being from Norfolk/Wiltshire/Yorkshire

Phil.

 

That for people who don't know the science in depth it has become a
religion (aka become spiritual although religion obviously is a
superset of 'spiritual').

Phil.

 

Well sure - that's part of the scientific method.

Indeed. *For the scientists* this isn't a problem. The fact is that
people need a framework for their interaction with the world. Most
people don't know diddly-squat about science apart from what they learn
via the TV/friends/print media and so they base their scientific
knowledge on the pronouncements of scientists. They then build those
"accepted ideas" (ie in their context 'beliefs') into their
worldview[1].
Thus 300 years ago heat was transmitted via phlogiston (an accepted
scientific "fact" according to the theories of the time) and people
bought (in huge numbers) devices to handle it.
Then that theory was dismissed and peoples worldviews had to change -
and they changed it because of the pronouncement of scientists. They
didn't do the research themselves, probably couldn't understand the
methods and reasoning behind the experiments and yet accepted the
pronouncment that things were different now.

Which is not a million miles away from how mass-religion works.

Phil.

[1] "Eating carrots help you see in the dark" etc.

 

Someone please delete this before it goes in his sig.

 

Not in our lifetime, agreed.

"I'm sorry, is this a five minute argument, or the full half-hour?"

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| Pete Fisher at Home: |
| Voxan Roadster Gilera Nordwest * 2 Yamaha WR250Z |
| Gilera GFR * 2 Moto Morini 2C/375 Morini 350 "Forgotten Error" |
+----------------------------------------------------------------+

 

You have just completely destroyed my faith in beta-carotene.


--
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| Pete Fisher at Home: |
| Voxan Roadster Gilera Nordwest * 2 Yamaha WR250Z |
| Gilera GFR * 2 Moto Morini 2C/375 Morini 350 "Forgotten Error" |
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