OT The ATC

Heh yeah right.
Get rid of excess academics more like.

 

Do that, please. Enquiring minds and all that....

 

According to MJ it is a very fragile economy. I expect he is right.
To succeed in the future you need a highly educated/skilled workforce and
world beating R&D and manufacturing.

 

Subs are so very 70's though. If Andy didn't need the work we could just get
rid of them.

 

So where should the pendulum be and why should unions only be a
counterbalance for management abuse? Why should abuse be tolerated at
all? Why shouldn't unions be looking for more than the removal of
abuse?

 

You asked about the German model.

Germany has a well-funded (mostly) university system, which turns out
highly skilled engineers and scientists who keep the world's most
successful economy running sweetly.

 

It was common in Northern Ireland for a fresh young thing just out of
Sandhurst who wanted to go into some well-known no-go area to be told
`if sir wants to go there, sir can go on his own sir'.

 

snip>

Don't you like the idea that we can kill a few million ethnics at the
press of a button?

 

You also have to be incredibly fit..

Phil.

 

No it's not. Germany is, Japan is, Britain is living in a fantasy
world where it *thinks* it's doing the high-skill, high-pay bit.

 

Heh. Struck me Tom Sharp didn't have to make anything up when he wrote
that SA novel - the bizarre occurences that were part of everyday life
that I've heard of were more than enough for several books.
--
Dave
GS850x2 XS650 SE6a

Teach a man to fish and he and his pikey mates will have the
river cleaned out in a day.

 

<MI5 lurker makes note in file>
Bonwick wants to know what'll sink sub.


Iwt that modern torpedoes won't leave a great deal of floatable
structure, same as it ever was.
--
Dave
GS850x2 XS650 SE6a

Teach a man to fish and he and his pikey mates will have the
river cleaned out in a day.

 

(Lets start this by saying I'm by no means an expert on this in any
way, shape or form..).

The pendulum should be in the position of neither side being able to
abuse their position. Which means that the management can't abuse the
workers and the unions can't abuse the workers either (cf British
Leyland - the workforce were to an extent just puppets in the power
struggle between the union bosses and the management). It also means
that employers should be able to make commercial decisions (in
partnership with the union) where changes *do* have to be made to
reflect commercial reality - but that the unions need to be an integral
part of the process rather than just a rubber-stamp exercise. And I'm
not talking about the "sack 10% of the workforce so the directors can
have a nice fat bonus" situation - that's a pretty classic definition
of abuse.

I realise I probably have a very idealised vision of what unions should
do and someone who knows better than me (like most of UKRM) will come
along shortly and put me right.

I don't know where you got "abuse should be tolerated at all" from my
words - maybe as an academic you are used to extracting stuff from
words that were never there in the first place..

And just in case you are under any illusions - it shouldn't be
tolerated - by either party. Unions can commit abuses of power (both to
the companies their members work for, the country as a whole and to
their members) as well as the employers can.

It depends on what is needed in order to prevent the abuse - where the
law of the land is quite clearly stacked in favour of the employer then
obviously the union needs to be involved in the process of righting
that. You are assuming that I'm thinking on a purely workplace-based
basis - I'm not.

Phil.

 

"Sergents exist to turn 2nd Lieutenants into real officers"

Phil.

 

I will consider that a *whoosh*

 

You wouldn't want to use nuclear for that - too much chance the fallout
would drift somewhere important. And also it would mess up the MPs
weekend cottage in the Breckon Beacons.

Phil.

 

Whining about Sig Seps - the last resort of a desperate man.


--
_______
..'_/_|_\_'. Ace (brucedotrogers a.t rochedotcom)
\`\ | /`/ DS#8 BOTAFOT#3 SbS#2 UKRMMA#13 DFV#8 SKA#2 IBB#10
`\\ | //'
`\|/`
`

 

Don't need x,000 tons of steel floating around to achive that. Indeed it's
utterly outdated.
What with satelites and submarine listening stations I expect the major
powers know where all the subs are all of the time.

If it keeps you busy that's fine though. We wouldn't do anything else more
useful with the money saved so WTF. Erm except we could build (say) 10 new
Thorium Breeder Reactors, that's 6,000 MW generating capacity and remove
Britain from the global warming camp.

**** me even the Indians can manage it.

 

Skilled manufacturing as per the Germans which is what good R&D supports.
You need to do the thinking bit and the high skill manufacturing bit.

 

I think you are right. Unfortunately.
Our stock market/Capital system just doesn't lend itself to the German
model.