OT Will all the pubs close?

Under the Government's new rules, councils are taking over the running
of the licensing system from magistrates. A lot of councils have looked
upon this a golden goose and on some occasions have increased the
license fee by huge amounts regardless of the guide lines.

Of 1362 pubs, 363 restaurants, 797 off-licences only 36 have applied for
the new license and of those only 10 had made the application correctly
and hence successfully. Looking through the local papers for other
counties this is common though out England where councils are trying to
rip off the publicans.

http://tinyurl.com/cg9al

 

"New applicants need to get a criminal records check carried out in Scotland
because the English Criminal Records Bureau does not do vetting. "

Sounds like a fiasco in the making.

 

Sort of what I thought too.

 

Too be fair (and not having read that article/YMMV/AIUI etc), the new
licence is supposed to be one all encompassing licence which authorises all
activities in your business. Whereas before, there was a restricted (wines
and beers) licence, a full licence (all spirits), Public Entertainments
Licence if you wanted more than two people on stage, permits for outdoor
drinking eating etc. Each of these had it's own application form(s), fee(s)
and renewal period.

From the little conversations I have had with publicans during my work, they
are broadly in favour of the concept of the new licence, but *utterly*
against the local authority taking over. Usually this is because the people
in charge of granting the licences tend to be the jumped up little fascist
empire building types who volunteer for the job so they can **** over people
that don't kiss their ass enough.

All IMHO of course...

 

Like I said before, Local Government (Authorities) should be all but
scrapped IMHO

'Hog

 

Actually, it looks like a much better system than the old one. Once the
building is licensed, the license stays with the building until either
the company ceases to exist, or the premises licence holder dies. This
means no pissing about with magistrates or dealing with objections from
the police every few years.

Although there's a fear of local authorities being difficult when
applying for the premises license, I'd say that it's highly unlikely
that people will be fucked over for not arse kissing as a lot of the old
regulations have now been taken away - ie. there can be no 'blanket'
decisions made restricting all licenced premises to adhere to the same
conditions, IYSWIM.

In terms of the personal license, this is a major step forward as it's
issued once every 10 years and means you can perform licensed activities
from anywhere with a premises license anywhere in England and Wales once
you have it. It also opens up a lot more opportunities to sell alcohol
etc. from village / school fetes etc, as you no longer need to ask the
magistrates very nicely if you can have an event license.

I took my exam last week and am currently awaiting the result.

 

Nice!

'Hog

 

Using the patented Mavis Beacon "Hunt&Peck" Technique, SteveH
<> typed

(New licensing regs)

Eh? AIUI it has to be renewed every year.

And the supermarket pays *exactly* the same fees as the corner shop or
small independent off-licence.

And volunteers who run village halls are supposed to give up yet more of
their spare time to "take the exam". And fill in a 21 page form to apply
for the licence. And assume *personal* legal responsibility for sale of
alcohol on the premises.

--
Wicked Uncle Nigel - Manufacturer of the "Champion-105" range of rearsets
and Ducati Race Engineer.

WS* GHPOTHUF#24 APOSTLE#14 DLC#1 COFF#20 BOTAFOT#150 HYPO#0(KoTL) IbW#41
ZZR1100, Enfield 500 Curry House Racer "The Basmati Rice Burner",
Honda GL1000K2 (On its hols) Kawasaki ZN1300 Voyager "Oh, Oh, It's so big"

 

No. Once you have it, it lasts 10 years.

Given that this is only around £35, it's a non-issue, really. £35 for a
10 year license is a bargain IMHO.

I haven't seen a 21 page form. As for the personal responsibility,
that's always been the case - the temporary license was granted to one
or two applicants who were personally responsible for any breach of the
licensing act.

 

Using the patented Mavis Beacon "Hunt&Peck" Technique, SteveH

That's not what my local offie bloke tells me. It has to be renewed
annually with the local authority.

Again, that's not what he tells me. The old one was about that, and
lasted (IIRC) three years. The new one costs several hundred and lasts
one year.

You wouldn't. Head Office would have done that for you. I *have* seen
the village hall form, and it is 21 pages.

Yes. Exactly. The *applicant* was responsible. Now, if I am the licensee
for the hall, then *any* breach of the alcohol laws is *my*
responsibility, even if I'm not present at the function. Many village
hall committees (like mine) are saying "**** that for a game", so it
will not be possible to hold a function at the hall at which alcohol is
sold. Ever.

--
Wicked Uncle Nigel - Manufacturer of the "Champion-105" range of rearsets
and Ducati Race Engineer.

WS* GHPOTHUF#24 APOSTLE#14 DLC#1 COFF#20 BOTAFOT#150 HYPO#0(KoTL) IbW#41
ZZR1100, Enfield 500 Curry House Racer "The Basmati Rice Burner",
Honda GL1000K2 (On its hols) Kawasaki ZN1300 Voyager "Oh, Oh, It's so big"

 

Wrong. Someone doesn't understand the process.

Premises license lasts until the holder dies or, in the case of a
company, the company stops trading.

He's mistaken. Seriously, trust me on this one.

I suspect that's for a premises license. Which will last until the
applicant dies.

That's a misunderstanding - the personal license holder who's given
notification of the event is the person who's responsible for any breach
of license.

Can't see why not. Someone is giving you duff advice.

 

Hmm, looks like Steve is right... :

http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2003/30017--d.htm#26 (Premises)
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2003/30017--g.htm#115 (Personal)

Whole thing here : http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2003/20030017.htm

 

Using the patented Mavis Beacon "Hunt&Peck" Technique, dwb

Ah well, it seems I'm wrong.

I'll have to have another chat with the solicitor that's on our
committee and see what the problem is.

--
Wicked Uncle Nigel - Manufacturer of the "Champion-105" range of rearsets
and Ducati Race Engineer.

WS* GHPOTHUF#24 APOSTLE#14 DLC#1 COFF#20 BOTAFOT#150 HYPO#0(KoTL) IbW#41
ZZR1100, Enfield 500 Curry House Racer "The Basmati Rice Burner",
Honda GL1000K2 (On its hols) Kawasaki ZN1300 Voyager "Oh, Oh, It's so big"

 

It's a bit worrying though - Steve being right.

 

I suspect you're falling foul of some of the new restrictions placed on
licensable events.

Off the top of my head (book is in my office at work):

Max. 499 people at any one event.
Each personal license holder can only hold (ISTR) 50 events per year,
and only 12 in any one place (effectively means that you may need
several license holders).

However, there's also restrictions on how many events can be held there
each year, the duration (max. 4 days) and the gap between events (min.
24 hours).

They're the main issues for village halls etc.

Maybe the committee are applying for a full premises license - that
would certainly entail the 21 page form (aka 'Operating Schedule') and
all sorts of consultation with EHO, H&S, Fire Officer and Chief of
Police before it's granted. Even then, 'interested parties' (eg. local
publican, local residents and businesses) may throw in an objection.

It's a bit of a messy process for entirely new applications due to the
length of validity, IYSWIM.

 

Using the patented Mavis Beacon "Hunt&Peck" Technique, dwb

Stranger things have, I suppose, happened.

Mostly in the first seven nanoseconds after the Big Bang, it must be
said.

--
Wicked Uncle Nigel - Manufacturer of the "Champion-105" range of rearsets
and Ducati Race Engineer.

WS* GHPOTHUF#24 APOSTLE#14 DLC#1 COFF#20 BOTAFOT#150 HYPO#0(KoTL) IbW#41
ZZR1100, Enfield 500 Curry House Racer "The Basmati Rice Burner",
Honda GL1000K2 (On its hols) Kawasaki ZN1300 Voyager "Oh, Oh, It's so big"

 

You know, I'm right surprisingly often. It's just that others don't
believe they could actually be wrong.

 

" " - no really.

 

Using the patented Mavis Beacon "Hunt&Peck" Technique, SteveH

It would seem that at least some of those responsible would agree:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/main.jhtml;jsessionid=2CEFPFX0SQBOHQFI
QMFSNAGAVCBQ0JVC?xml=/opinion/2005/06/13/do1304.xml&secureRefresh=true&_r
equestid=756

(Registration required, so it's a couple of MPs admitting it's a
****-up)

--
Wicked Uncle Nigel - Manufacturer of the "Champion-105" range of rearsets
and Ducati Race Engineer.

WS* GHPOTHUF#24 APOSTLE#14 DLC#1 COFF#20 BOTAFOT#150 HYPO#0(KoTL) IbW#41
ZZR1100, Enfield 500 Curry House Racer "The Basmati Rice Burner",
Honda GL1000K2 (On its hols) Kawasaki ZN1300 Voyager "Oh, Oh, It's so big"

 

Good article, however, they're overlooking the benefits of a premises
license. No more mornings spent down the local magistrates getting
licenses granted for barn dances and suchlike. (it's a tedious process,
and fortunately one I've only had to endure when changing stores). Once
a premises license is granted, that's it for the life of the comittee.

I also agree with the aims of the personal license - until recently any
fuckwit could be granted a license to sell alcohol to the public, at
least now there's some sort of guarantee that the person is 'fit and
proper' or responsible enough to do it, IYSWIM.