Out with the old, in with the not so old I suppose.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/isle_of_man/7340579.stm

 

Aren't these guys all volunteers?

 

The most authoritative view I've heard on this was from Janice, who
honestly didn't think that anything more could have been done, bar
lining the entire route with ten-foot padded fencing. Did she give
such an opinion at the inquest? Sounds like the Judge just wasn't
listening to reason.

Than again, having actually read his report, I see that his main issue
is that the marshals, including Keith and Janice, were not aware that
they should have been excluding the public from the area, so I can see
he has a point. He took great pains to exclude them from any
critisisms, which is entirely fair, so I suppose that the man at the
top has to take ultimate responsibility.

And at 72, he's probably taken the decision to resign in the hope that
this will avoid others with more to lose having to do so.



--
_______
..'_/_|_\_'. Ace (brucedotrogers a.t rochedotcom)
\`\ | /`/ GSX-R1000K3 (slightly broken, currently missing)
`\\ | //' BOTAFOT#3, SbS#2, UKRMMA#13, DFV#8, SKA#2, IBB#10
`\|/`
`

 

I've just read all of that report. Why do people who have raced there
tend not to support those findings, and what do they think should have
been done, if anything?

 

Well, not quite, but yes, he's saying that if the spectators weren't
there they'd not have been hit.

Seems fairly reasonable, I must say.

But that's been the case for many years, as I learnt from reading the
summation. The fact that they've got all these PAs is down to
precisely that sort of thinking.

I wouldn't disagree, but the argument's a bit misplaced in this
context, given that the precedent has been established and practiced
in its current form for over a decade. The issue of enforcement of PAs
is the main thing he seems to be criticising here.

Happy days, eh? Used to be like that on most race tracks when I wer'
lad.

--
_______
..'_/_|_\_'. Ace (brucedotrogers a.t rochedotcom)
\`\ | /`/ GSX-R1000K3 (slightly broken, currently missing)
`\\ | //' BOTAFOT#3, SbS#2, UKRMMA#13, DFV#8, SKA#2, IBB#10
`\|/`
`

 

The report didn't suggest that to me. The coroner's main point seemed
to be that if you're going to have a chain of responsibility, then it
should work. And in this case it didn't and 2 people died who
possibly wouldn't have.

 

I could be wrong here, but fwir of the accident...

Umm... Not standing on the outside of a bend on the exit curve is pretty
much a matter of common sense, but that's not so common any more.
--
Dave
GS850x2 XS650 SE6a

"A scone and tea at half past three
Makes the day a little brighter
Keep your cakes and fancy tarts
And stick them up your shiter."

 

And locals?

 

Legally it wouldn't make any difference. If the organisers are negligent
in their safety measures then their negligent. If they're not, then
they're not.

--
Veggie Dave
UKRMHRC#2 BOTAFOF#08
IQ 18 FILMS http://www.iq18films.com
POST PRODUCTION http://www.iq18films.co.uk
Toxic Shock Syndrome Gets More Girls Than Me

 

That's irrelevant in this case because they weren't standing on the
exit curve.

 

It just requires a bit of lateral thinking... My vote is for internment
camps in Peel.

 

Using the patented Mavis Beacon "Hunt&Peck" Technique, Andy Bonwick

Indeed.

I've marshalled in that location (as have others here). I've also seen
people asked to move from clearly dodgy places there.

To get hit where (AIUI) they were was just really shitty luck.

 

Whilst this may sound selfish, I'm so glad I went home the day before,
as I'd have otherwise been marshalling there.

 

Fair enough. It does seem that there were serious failures of
organization (is 'systemic' a good word to use here?). Quite possibly
two lives would have been spared if the failures hadn't happened.

I think generally the Coroner seemed to be fair but he did seem to
think that spectators need to be wrapped in cotton wool - surely,
provided they are made aware of the risks, so as to make informed
choices, they shouldn't be barred from getting close the action except
in the above exceptional areas. As to his comments regarding the
rider's nearest and dearest, well, that is between the riders and
their nearest and dearest.

 

I really meant, when did the very first Prohibited Area ever get
designated on the mountain circuit? I dare say it was more than 20 years
ago. From watching some of the old footage I suspect the earliest ones
may have been in direct response to incidents such as ramming the boozer
door at Ballacraine.

In the last 20 or so in terms of outright top speed perhaps. Over a
longer period, and in terms of better tyres, suspension etc. there has
to be a significant increase on some sections surely or the lap record
would still be 100 mph. If a rider loses it in some formerly slow
sections at the sort of speed they can attain now, the potential for the
machine to end up further in to the scenery could be greater IMO. I'm
sure you are right that the change in attitudes has probably been more
significant of late. The 'safe' areas will remain safe until another
freak accident happens. Over considerable sections of the circuit it
will never happen.

Either physically, due to impenetrable hedges (I am sure you could never
watch on the exit from Bishop's Court in years gone by for that reason),
or as a result of being fenced off securely by landowners not prepared
to allow access. I can think of a couple of places where you couldn't
get into before that have been opened up.

Hmm. As I said, I could be prepared to accept that the PA at Joey's was
unwarranted, as such an incident couldn't be foreseen. The logic of
ensuring that safety provisions that someone has deemed necessary for
good reason are followed has to be followed, or sooner or later those
responsible become complacent - a word the Coroner used. IIRC failings
were mentioned when a spectator who rode into the rope at Quarter Bridge
during Manx week 2005. A candidate for he Darwin awards perhaps, but I
think it was found that the red marking of the rope hadn't been done
properly. The attitude of the Department of Transport in particular was
laid back even by Manx 'Traa-dy-Liooar' standards. BTW, did you know
some spectators were also injured whilst watching on the Southern 100
circuit on the Saturday after the TT?

Fair point well made. Was that one incident directly cited by the HSE as
the reason? Just how high would they have to get I wonder?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sport/motorsport/720921.stm

Could be worse though. It took the Swiss 52 years to lift their total
ban on circuit racing imposed after the Le Mans accident.

--
+----------------------------------------------------------------+
| Pete Fisher at Home: |
| Voxan Roadster Gilera Nordwest * 2 Yamaha WR250Z |
| Gilera GFR * 2 Moto Morini 2C/375 Morini 350 "Forgotten Error" |
+----------------------------------------------------------------+

 

That was George Formby, wasn't it?

For me, the problem is that almost every accident is difficult to
foresee. What level of paranoia do you employ? I preferred the old
days when the marshals just told you to be sensible.

I did, which just shows the utterly unpredictable nature of these
things - there'd been no spectator deaths ever, and no injuries for a
couple of decades, and then there's two incidents in two days.

<grudging> s'pose so.

I guess really I should rejoice that the TT exists at all in the 21st
century. But it won't last for ever; I was amazed to find out last
weekend that they've even introduced a smoking ban in pubs there now!



--
Champ

ZX10R | GPz750turbo | GSX-R 600 racer
My advice as your attorney is to buy a motorcycle
To email me, neal at my domain should work.

 

snip>

FFS!

Are they actually enforcing the ban?

 

Again?

 

A stunt by Cyril Standen if you want to be picky ;-)

Still no periodic MOT for private cars or bikes though.

--
+----------------------------------------------------------------+
| Pete Fisher at Home: |
| Voxan Roadster Gilera Nordwest * 2 Yamaha WR250Z |
| Gilera GFR * 2 Moto Morini 2C/375 Morini 350 "Forgotten Error" |
+----------------------------------------------------------------+

 

They'd be different this time, natives on the inside, germans on the
outside.