P plate training ...not

I pity the yanks who don't get irony. Isn't it delicious

GB's comment above posted @ 09/02/07 12:08
GB's comments below posted @ 09/02/07 12:27

http://groups.google.com/group/aus.motorcycles/msg/fed79a10fae34514
(but be quick.. his post will expire from the google archive in 6 days)

Nev..
'04 CBR1100XX

 

I think you're drawing conclusions based on false assumptions.

Nev..
'04 CBR1100XX

 

Oh dear, do you also need a whhooossshhh to go with the Cpt Ob? All
measurement is going to inaccurate and is therefore an estimate. See below
re: Analytical measurement, ISO, NATA etc.....

Have you forgotten all that horrible stuff in labs where I'd generate a
number and also error bars showing the "tolerance" of that answer?

Did you miss Nev's point (or Theo's, or someone's) that the readout was 4
significant figures, which had had the potential to either show that 1)
there is no effect, or 2) it is so small more significant numbers were
required?

You can see things no-one else can, hmmmm.

....and what do they smell like?

Hammo

 

Ahh; so I've said some conditions are measured but that the fuel is not
measured and you wanna' pretend that means I said "the fuel is measured" do
you?
Good luck with that.

 

Yep; that's pretty much how automatic systems go.
If X isn't under pre-defined range for X, increase X by Y and then check
again. If X is over; decrease by Z.
Repeat several times per second as necessary.

 

Ahh ... it's a quote.
Dammit [makes an exaggerated "foiled" motion]; I shoulda' known it was too
easy!

 

Come off the grass Hammo; Blind Freddie's seeing-eye-dog's fleas can see
you're trying diversion after obfuscation!
That's why we keep repeating the obvious and logical with every reply.
Standard Operation Procedure.

 

Sing along with me now (al la Summer Holiday)
"Hammo's playing Devil's Advocate
Trying to get bites from one or two
He'll keep going 'til you lose your rag with it,
Pedantic bantering keeps him sane
There's nothing you can do"

K

H - clear your email so I can message you off the newsgroup

 

FFS Clem, the amount of energy you're putting into pretending to be
stupider than you are would power your entire house for a week!

I chose the most primitive electrical system example I could think of,
an old-fashioned dynamo driven by the rotating wheel of a push-bike. I
figured most aus.moto posters would know what that was.

At any point in time that dynamo delivers a precise amount of electrical
current which is determined by the rotation speed of its shaft, which is
in turn controlled by the rotation speed of the bicycle wheel. Spin the
bicycle wheel faster, you get more current; don't spin the bicycle wheel
at all and you don't get any. (If I was arguing with Hammo I'd have to
explain which bicycle wheel was being used and what was the tyre
pressure, and whether the dynamo had static or moving magnets, but I
don't have to do that with you, do I?)

With the cyclist pedalling at maximum speed, engage the dynamo. The bike
slows down because the human pedalling has to overcome both the inertia
of the rotor in the dynamo (this is actually negligible) and the
resistance of the magnets to being dragged through an EMF. At this new
maximum speed, the dynamo produces, I dunno, say 2W of power. Presently
all this electricity is doing is going round and round, so let's add a
1W light.

This magical light has no mass (so we don't have to get into arguments
about it's contribution to inertial resistance on the bike) but it
demands 1W of power, so since the dynamo is providing 2W it's using
half. How much physical resistance have we added to the system? Nothing
whatsoever, so the cyclist isn't required to do extra work (but see 'The
World According To Clem' below). Let's add another one.

Now we're using the total generating capacity of the dynamo, all 2W. How
much harder is it for the cyclist to push along with the lights on? No
harder than when they are turned off. It isn't the lights that increase
his effort, it's the dynamo itself. Let's add 20 more lights.

In the world according to Clem, the dark energy flowing out of these
extra 20 lights travels down the wires to the dynamo and supersizes the
magnets, causing the dynamo to seize, the front wheel of the cycle to
stop and the cyclist to fall off.

In the world according to Andrew, the extra 20 lights simply never light
up (or, if they are wired up in parallel, all the lights go out).

In theory the dynamo can be spun up to velocities that will deliver more
than 22W. In reality no cyclist can pedal anything like that fast.

Now tell me again which bit of my earlier post you found hard to
understand. If it was the bit where I asserted that in order to get more
electrical power out of a dynamo you had to spin it faster (as it
appeared from your comments), I can't help you.

 

Obfuscation, that is a long bow to draw. ...and it is standard operating
procedure.

You can repeat something till you are blue in the face and it won't change
it. If by logical and obvious, you mean "it works for you" then I am happy
that you have achieved your goal.

I don't agree and therefore I'm going to point out what I consider to be
logical [though not necessarily obvious]. For example are you aware of the
grades of analytical glassware that is used to measure liquids? For you it
is a moot point as you take the stance of lights on in the day is waste of
fuel, where as I don't (depending on the DRL). There is no waste as I want
it on and it does it's job well. Yes, it uses fuel, no it's not a waste.

Crystal?

Hammo

 

Yes, and if I wanted and answer that was based on speculation......

This is called speculation, or assumption. Do you know that that is the
case with the fuel measurement? I can see and appreciate that the point is
valid, though, I don't tend to go with the the popularist vote in order to
be ice box, man.

Also, I was referring to significant figures, not decimals. See lab work
(above and as you pointed out unneeded complexity, surely that'd be a
given?).

No, you claimed it was nought more than a red herring. Your
wording/phrasing implied that you believed it to be a "scent-thrower".

It was an attempt to discredit the standards by which things are measured
and therefore calculated and "standardised". Pretty important.

I was not going to commit any acts of criminalality. I was asking if you
were having olfactory hallucinations with the visual ones.

Hammo

PS Did you consider the lubricity of diesel vs ULP in measurements?

 

Oi, **** off newbie!

Hammo


....whilst you're at it, are the wires insulated?

 

OK so I went out to my car, on a different day, in different weather
conditions and the above measurements all replicated.. surprising since
some people have been so adamant that the system which measured them
wasn't accurate, reliable or repeatable.. but anyway..

Fuel flow increases from 2.68L/hr to about 3.2L/hr

stays the same after a momentary flicker no more than ±20RPM

Turning the lights on and off with the aircon turned on made no
difference to the fuel flow rate or the engine RPM.

Nev..
'04 CBR1100XX

 

ATEC or Andrew ? Or are they the same beast ? I've not noticed the
Andrew character before. Or are you being really subtle and meaning
yourself

The interesting part was Andrew's statement that you were pissing on
was actually (pedantically) correct. I think he proved himself
clueless in the later post (I lost interest) but he actually threw in
an interesting (extremely minor) - it just seemed like a good
opportunity to engage in pointless esoteric argument as we do so well
here !

JL

 

Is she ever! I grew up with a father who plays devil's advocate at every opportunity, and is far better at it (and far less obvious
about it) than Hammo.

 

Ain't no surprises there Katho; so long as you wrestle the greasy pig and
don't let it run anywhere but the course-du-jour there's no problems.

 

While patently true, there's a difference between obstinately arguing
an inaccurate, irrelevant or indefensible point and being a devil's
advocate that Hammo always seems to miss

JL

 

No argument, but there's load and then there's load. The mechanical load
created by the metallic bits being persuaded to whirl in circles is a
constant. AFAIK, the EMF created load (which requires mechanical effort
on the input part of the device ie the pulley, for you slow boofheads
who are missing the point) is proportional to the amount of electrical
current load.

The fact that I've had to repeat this thrice pretty much reminds me why
I classify you with toosmoky as someone who's pointless to have a
discussion with (hell, actually, even *he* got it, so where that leaves
you on the comprehension scale is somewhere around the average orangutan
I guess)

DUH ! I said that, in fact if you think about this bit, and the bit
you're half agreeing with below, you'll see you're contradicting

Oh jesus fucking christ, i know what "machinations" means, trying
googling up what "latter" means. I was referring to your made up word
"masturbaterpoofta"

JL

 

Magnetism and Electromagnetic Force works for me Hammo.
I'm happy and I'm sure that it's happy that you're happy about it too!

I can't see no diversion or obfuscation here Cheif Inspector!

And of course this isn't what we were talking about and it also was covered
about 30 posts ago when I said "If the lights are serving a purpose then the
fuel isn't being wasted".

No; chrystal would be a waste.

 

Because a human told it what to do, if these parameters are measured
(which don't include measuring fuel flow), then do x.

Uhuh, it sticks it's metaphorical finger in the air and makes it's best
guess, based on the things it does know. It's usually a pretty fair
estimate to, same as when I walk outside, wave my arms around a bit and
say "I think it's about 22, 24 degrees celsius this morning"

In my experience, yes, yes very definitely.

JL
(it's always impressive to put 16L into a 15L tank I think)