paging the behaviourist-isti

Discussion in 'UK Motorcycles' started by Dentist, Feb 9, 2007.

  1. Dentist

    Dentist Guest

    'On the psychology of military incompetence'
    by Norman Dixon. Publ. by Random House.
    30 years old but a potentially illuminating read for those interested in
    current military behaviour around the world.
     
    Dentist, Feb 9, 2007
    #1
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  2. Dentist

    platypus Guest

    I was leafing through a copy of that the other day (well, prolly a couple of
    weeks ago) in an Oxfam shop in Bristol. Seemed rather good.

    --
    platypus

    "Merely corroborative detail, intended to
    give artistic verisimilitude to an otherwise
    bald and unconvincing narrative."
     
    platypus, Feb 9, 2007
    #2
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  3. Dentist

    Dentist Guest

    platypus wrote;
    The style is disarmingly humorous, but after taking it all in, I felt it
    contained 'great truth'.
    I've heard of nothing in past british, or current septic military
    organisation to change my view.
     
    Dentist, Feb 10, 2007
    #3
  4. Dentist

    darsy Guest

    I'm just about to start "The Great War for Civilization", though the
    sheer bulk of the thing is making me balk a little.
     
    darsy, Feb 11, 2007
    #4
  5. Dentist

    Kim Bolton Guest

    An absolute cracker of a book.

    Learn to spot the characteristics of someone displaying the 'anal
    character', and use it accordingly.

    I worked for some time in a mixed military/civilian environment where
    no-one was below the rank of Major. After a number of false starts -
    such as "GET OUT OF MY FUCKING OFFICE NOW..." followed by a couple of
    minutes of more of the same [1][2] - a good friend lent me Dixon's
    book. Life changed forever, as I could now use the military mindset to
    my advantage....and did.

    The book has far wider use in life, but especially applies to those
    who are uniformed. An excellent read.

    [1] Army. Navy was disdainfully superior [3]. Air Force...on those
    occasions I went to see them, I couldn't get away. By far the most
    technically competent, and willing to ask questions.

    [2] My mistake was to have been phoned by someone working on a project
    for which the Major concerned was the Project Leader. Some technical
    aspect had been raised, and as the expert in the field, they rang me
    to let me know. I wandered down the corridor to see said Major and
    pass the information along with a briefing as to its importance. The
    red-faced ranting explosion followed.

    What had happened was that I had upset the military heirarchy. A Major
    knows more far than a Captain, but knows nothing compared to a Lt/Col.
    What I had inadvertantly done - in his terms - was to say that he
    didn't know something about his project, and so accused him indirectly
    of being incompetent. Since it was my job to pass on what he didn't
    know, because he wasn't the expert, this was a lose-lose situation
    from my point of view. His boss came along later to apologise. A final
    note was that I outranked the Major anyway, even though a civilian...

    [3] I once went along to see a Lt/Cdr in the building regarding a
    technical matter of mutual interest that we had been working on, and
    by now knowing the Navy was anal, had made an appointment. At the
    approporiate moment, I appeared in her office doorway, only to see her
    sitting rigidly at attention (eyes straight ahead, back rigid, arms
    straight down) while her boss spoke to her. He didn't see me, but I
    saw her eyes flicker in my direction, and a look of distress cross her
    face at this awkward situation. I gently retreated and came back a few
    minutes later. There were great sensitivities and much thin skin
    about.
     
    Kim Bolton, Feb 11, 2007
    #5
  6. Dentist

    Dentist Guest

    Kim Bolton wrote;
    are uniformed.

    I discovered the book when working for a well known british co. with a
    uniformed arm organised on vaguely military lines. One of my bosses
    suggested I read it to get a handle on why I kept running into brick
    walls trying to get my job done.
    I have to admit I used it mercilessly where I could, and made several
    new enemies, which was good. I used to call him Rommel, which he
    understood and, I think, appreciated. In return, he called me Paddy,
    which I think was a reference to Paddy Mayne. I was never too sure at
    the time if this was a compliment or not, but he always covered my back,
    so it must have been.
     
    Dentist, Feb 11, 2007
    #6
  7. Dentist

    Kim Bolton Guest

    Yes, Paddy Blair-Mayne was one of the early pioneers of David
    Stirling's new creation, chosen because he got things done. Quite a
    compliment, really! He also gets a good mention in the 'Gladiators of
    WWII" series that's shown regularly on UKTV History.

    But I see we both used Dixon's book in much the same way, for the same
    ends, in similar circumstances....I thought I was the only one! It's
    nice to meet a fellow-traveller.....;-)
     
    Kim Bolton, Feb 11, 2007
    #7
  8. Dentist

    Dentist Guest

    Kim Bolton wrote;
    I got the impression over the years that it's more widely read than I
    first thought. Unfortunately, I now find it slightly depressing that so
    many people in middle and senior management positions 'fit the profile'.
    As a born optimist though, I value the 'Shakas' and the 'Wellingtons'
    even more. It's just a shame they are a bit rare.
     
    Dentist, Feb 11, 2007
    #8
  9. Dentist

    Dentist Guest

    Champ wrote;
    Christ! I hope this doesn't lead to abuse later.
     
    Dentist, Feb 11, 2007
    #9
  10. Dentist

    Kim Bolton Guest

    Well, it's a sharp tool....one might occasionally see one's self in
    there, to greater or lesser extent; the important thing is how to
    react to the discovery......

    And I'd agree about the 'bosses' thing; but then, they like the
    uniformed people, select people who are like themselves, and so the
    cycle is doomed to repeat.

    Once upon a time a Major-General was sent along to give me a
    talking-to, because I wouldn't go along with something and it was
    making waves. Within something like fifteen seconds I'd reduced him,
    quite deliberately, to a red-faced, angry little child. I had 'orders'
    too, but they were more authoritative than his, and I couldn't be
    bothered letting him down gently.
     
    Kim Bolton, Feb 11, 2007
    #10
  11. Dentist

    Dentist Guest

    Kim Bolton wrote;
    That's the war-time parallel. In the end, getting the job done is the
    primary task, not maintaining the status quo or delicate egos. The
    subtlety is in keeping people 'on-side' and avoiding collateral damage.
    The greatest satisfaction in my job was in isolating damaging senior
    personnel so they did less harm, without them realising. This was
    inevitably seen as rebellious, misconduct and devious by some. It was,
    however, among the things I was employed to do.

    I hope you had someone watching your back!
     
    Dentist, Feb 11, 2007
    #11
  12. Dentist

    marina Guest

    If you pass that way again, can you pick it up please? Owen would like
    it. Reimbursement will follow, natch.

    --
    Marina Mayes - Reading, UK. To email me remove XX from my address
    SR250 - gone. BOTAFOT12, BOD#2, BOTAFOS#2
    KotLBOD#s, KotLBOTAFOS#s,IMC#2, Tart#10-19, SR#3
    I never give in to fear or blackmail; I always give in to temptation.
    "You're a national treasure" - porl, 18.1.03
     
    marina, Feb 11, 2007
    #12
  13. Dentist

    Kim Bolton Guest

    LOL! I had 'the law' at my back, but I was being quietly cheered on by
    senior management, who wanted the same result as I did. The
    Major-General resigned less than six months later - perhaps because
    his pet project had blown up in his face - and I kept going for
    another nine years; until retirement, in fact.

    We had a chap in charge, who was a fanatic for saving public money -
    any public money , it didn't matter to him what budget it was from,
    even if he had no control over it, he wanted to save money from it.
    Fortunately, the episode didn't concern me, but three of my colleagues
    stitched him up royally.

    It's a long story, but essentially foreign travel was restricted to
    one representative from the organisation per meeting. Well, that's all
    well and good, but experts in different technical areas can't cover
    for each other, and sure enough the time came along for three people
    to do the Australia trip. Boss put his foot down, but finally gave
    permission to send the three chaps provided costs were limited to a
    set amount, much smaller than requirements dictated. By clever
    manoevering, and OK-ing every stage with the boss, the three wound up
    making about a grand each from the trip, and had a free week's holiday
    in Sidney to boot, apart from the work they were sent out to do. Total
    cost was far more than doing it properly. That's what anal retentivity
    can do for you, if you play the game. Boss wound up as a
    laughing-stock.
     
    Kim Bolton, Feb 11, 2007
    #13
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