Paging TOG: Triumph battery question

TOG, my Trident 900's battery - about five years old - seems to be giving
out. Even after being kept charged on an Optimate it feels as if it's
about to run out of steam if the engine doesn't fire within a few seconds
(often the case if the bike hasn't been used for a few days). Last winter I
was forced to use jump leads from my car a few times. I assume your Trophy
1200 uses the same capacity battery (14Ah). What make and model do you
use, and are you happy with it?

Ta.

 

Funny, that. I was just wondering the same thing about my battery this
week. It starts feeling weak after a few seconds' cranking.

It's the OE battery, I know. They're actually quite small, aren't they.
Like your 900, the 1200 Trophy needs some cranking after a few idle
days. It seems to start easier if you turn the fuel tap to "prime" a
couple of minutes before you hit the button.

I think the batteries are just slightly small for the size of engine, so
if mine's a bit edgy after three years, I'd say yours is knackered. Buy
the best replacement you can, before winter.

 

Thus spake The Older Gentleman unto the assembled multitudes:

Sounds like a classic case of "they all do that, sir"

I'll give that a try, ta. My bike is always garaged leaning on its side
stand, and I wonder if that makes any difference to the starting fuel
supply.

I too have often thought the battery is too small for these bikes. Wish I
could squeeze a bigger one in. Off to my local dealer's this afternoon,
then.

Thanks

 

Given Triumph's history of sprag clutch problems, I'm amazed you stuck
with the same battery for another year, even if the later sprags are
stronger!

It's well overdue for replacement at 5 years anyway, but have you
checked the electrolyte level, assuming it's a wet battery? My Tig
battery does tend to run low when using the Optimate, & I've found it
virtually dry in the past. Topping up then charging revitalises it. I'd
still replace it asap at that age though - a new sprag requires a major
engine strip.

 

It's not so much that as the length of the fuel lines. I think that when
you shut off you get a certain amount of evaporation in the lines. But
then there should still be plenty in the float bowls to start the thing.

My dealer says they're very sensitive to choke, and he's right. I
generally start cranking mine on zero choke and just ease the choke
slightly open as I'm doing so. Full choke, in anything other than
winter, it doesn't like at all.

 

It doesn't actually - but it *does* require the engine to come out of
the frame, although I think from 1998 or thereabouts on it is slightly
easier.

 

Thus spake Preston Kemp unto the assembled multitudes:

I am already something of a sprag clutch veteran. My Trident broke its
sprag clutch in March 1998, about 18 months after I bought it (at 3yrs old
with 7K miles on the clock). After an assertive exchange of letters with
Triumph (me citing the low mileage as being a bit suss, them implying my
maintenance wasn't up to scratch and refusing to admit the sprag clutch was
a weak design - QED), they agreed to pay for the replacement parts, but I
still had to fork out 480 quid labour and VAT. The work involved
machining the engine cases to fit a new design sprag clutch. But then,
bugger me if it didn't break again just over a year later. After a fair
bit of arm-twisting with the help of another Triumph dealer, Triumph again
contributed to the cost, but again I paid 290 quid. So I've spent not far
short of 800 quid on sprag clutch problems. That was in 1999, and so far
(touch wood) the new starter clutch has been fine.

Admittedly when I checked the leccy levels this morning they were on or
below the LOW line in all cells, and in fact half an inch below on two of
them, but still plenty of liquid in there. And even when I've topped it up
in the past it doesn't seem to have made a big difference. Anyways, have
just ordered a new battery from John Harris of Crowborough. Blimey, 60
quid for a battery; they've gone up a bit, but I did ask for the best.

For what it's worth, the outgoing battery is a Yuasa. The OE battery was
(is - still in my garage a Yokohama.

 

Thus spake The Older Gentleman unto the assembled multitudes:

I agree. My Trident is pretty much the same. In summer I can usually
start it without the choke an then ease in a bit of choke to let it idle
for a minute or two, but it can be a right bugger in winter or after a week
or two idle (that's when the jump leads come in handy). And yet sometimes
it's start almost as soon as you touch the button.

 

Ouch. I know that the sprag clutch failure is/was linked to dodgy
batteries - battery struggles to turn engine over, engine kicks back,
sprag clutch fails....

 

Thus spake my good self unto the assembled multitudes:

I should add that this was when the battery was also replaced. I just
wanted to make sure the battery wasn't going to be to blame if the sprag
clutch broke a third time

I guess one can tend to forget about battery life. My previous car (Astra)
had the OE battery for its entire life (12 years) and it was still going
strong when the car was nicked for the second and last time.

 

Lol I had *exactly* the same with my Tiger - out of warranty, the
denials, the letters, the eventual agreement to cover the cost of
parts. They initially said I must've been using the wrong oil - til I
faxed them the service records proving it had been main dealer serviced
from new. I knew for a fact the original smaller sprags weren't up to
the job thanks to some info from someone I know who was a Triumph test
rider in the early years.

I'm very glad to say this didn't happen in my case - it's still going
strong. In fact yours is the first case I've heard of the larger sprag
failing.

Ouch. You can, as TOG inferred replace the sprag by going in through
the bottom rather than taking the barrels off first, but that's not the
Triumph recommended way of doing it, so a main dealer may take a bit of
convincing.

Jeez, that does sound steep. I got a hulking great Bosche battery for
my Jeep for 60 quid recently.
http://www.tayna.co.uk/category/7/Motorcycle-Batteries.html do a few
Varta 14Ah for around 26 quid with acid pack...

 

My 1997 Duke is still on the OE battery. I think it's bigger than the
Triumph one, too.

 

Thus spake The Older Gentleman unto the assembled multitudes:

That's about the size of it. The clutch didn't fail immediately though.
You'd hear a loud metallic CLONK which was presumably a kick-back biting the
sprag clutch's bum, and this happened on several occasions, progressively
getting worse until the engine would hardly turn over. The first time it
happened I didn't even know what it was, and the dealer gave the bad news.
The second time the sound was all too familiar and the sprag clutch gave up
much sooner (as nearly did I with Triumphs).

It has kicked back quite a few times since, but no sprag clutch problems,
just a loud fart (and I don't think that was me).

 

Thus spake Preston Kemp unto the assembled multitudes:

Crikey, I reckon they must have had a pile of pro forma letters for all the
disgruntled owners with sprag clutch problems. They mentioned inadequate
lubrication to me too. I too sent them copies of servicing records, which
presumably helped change their mind.

I think the second failure may have had something to do with the
incompetence of the mechanics at Moto Velo of Bolney. The reason I had to
use another dealer second time around (Alf's of Worthing) was because Moto
Velo had lost their Triumph dealership. In fact not long after that they
went out of business. I might still have been using the first replacement
sprag clutch (and 280 quid better off) if Alf's (who are pretty good but
expensive) had done it in the first place. Ho hum.

Bike batteries -> lower volume production -> higher prices? Might also be
due to Crowborough being in the heart of affluent East Sussex (and no I
don't live there

Must admit I can't recall what I paid for my Yuasa (also from John Harris)
in 1999, but it was nowhere near 60 quid. I didn't record it, which is
annoying 'cos <anorak> I normally record every penny I spend on car and

Free acid thrown in, eh? Oh, *that* type of acid....

 

Thus spake The Older Gentleman unto the assembled multitudes:

I had a Guzzi V75 (eugh...spit...) which had a bigger battery too, but it
still couldn't spin the motor.

 

yet the SOBoxer, and R60, despite as standard having a battery about the
size of that for a Ford escort, will in fact start from a 12AH tiddler. much
to my amazement. The starter on the BM looks about big enough for an
Escort, too.

 

One of my Saab 900s had its battery replaced at 15 years old. I assume
the battery was OE as it was not a type I'd seen before and the
predominant language was Swedish.

 

Varta?

bloody good batteries, them.

 

Wasn't them - TBH I can't remember who it was except it /looked/ OE IYSWIM

I concur.

 

Funny you should say that. The Daytona battery has just had a sulk. I
wonder whether we can get a bulk discount?
--
Tim two#21, YGL#3 & BOTAFOT#84

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