Pick a speed, any speed...

Discussion in 'Australian Motorcycles' started by Uncle Bully, Jul 7, 2003.

  1. Uncle Bully

    Uncle Bully Guest

    How much does speed contribute to fatal crashes? Governments and authorities
    quote widely differing percentages:

    .. Britain's Transport Research Laboratory says speed is a causal factor in
    4.3 percent of fatalities.
    .. The Northern Territory Government 2001 report says 7 percent.
    .. Italy's Transport Minister, Pietro Lunardi, says 9 percent.
    .. Queensland's Department of Transport 1999 annual report puts the figure at
    14.6 percent.
    .. US data since the early '90s suggest speed is involved in one-third of
    fatal crashes.
    .. In NSW, the RTA pushes credulity by suggesting variously 42 and 46

    Source: http://tinyurl.com/g6z7
    Uncle Bully, Jul 7, 2003
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  2. Uncle Bully

    Doug Cox Guest

    The truth, as always, is somewhere in the middle. Certainly it's
    over-enforced. Trouble is, with expected revenue budgeted in advance, we in
    effect have a quota system. If we slow down and deprive them of income, they
    lower speed limits and enforce tighter tolerances. I noticed Forbes had a
    limit of 40ks when I went through there last time. How long till the man
    with the red flag comes back?...

    In Qld, two ads running concurrently are at odds. One says that 50ks is safe
    for pedestrians and 60 is not, the other shows that (and the fuckin' thing
    was just on the teev in the background as I typed) 70ks is dangerous and 60
    is safe...

    Doug Cox.
    Work to ride, Ride to work...
    Doug Cox, Jul 7, 2003
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  3. Uncle Bully

    AlexT Guest

    That, along with the post from Steve earlier today, both make me feel
    sick. What price do we put on our lives and the lives of others? Most
    normal people would say none. No price can be set on a human life. Our
    governments seem to be willing to sacrifice Australian lives for revenue
    raised from automated traffic enforcement, which is damn scary. Those
    of you who think otherwise, I suggest you read the info above over and
    over again, along with the figure of over half a billion dollars a year
    raised in speed camera revenue nation wide. If you still think that
    state governments are looking out for us on the roads with this "speed
    kills" rubbish, then it would be fairly safe to say that your IQ must be
    around the same level as our new residential speed limits.

    I know i'll now be writing to my local member with this info, and asking
    questions. You'd think that Mr John Anderson would have a very strong
    say being deputy PM, but apparently not.

    I hope on my next trip interstate in a few weeks, i'm not killed by
    someone who fell asleep at the wheel sitting on a deadly boring speed
    limit of 110.

    Anyone else who agrees with me, which i know is a fair chunck of the
    people in this newsgroup, I suggest you start writing letters to your
    local members. Something has to be done.

    AlexT, Jul 7, 2003
  4. Uncle Bully

    Uncle Bully Guest

    It'll will have 'speed as a factor' though fatigue will be the primary
    Now that fatigue is accepted as a major cause of road accidents, it makes
    all the the speed propaganda quite ironic. After all, one sure way to induce
    fatigue is to drive at a slower speed than you are comfortable. The govt has
    to make a choice, speed or fatigue, they can't have both.
    Uncle Bully, Jul 7, 2003
  5. Probably determines if a lot of them are fatal or not.

    Brisbane, Australia
    Rainbow Warrior, Jul 7, 2003
  6. The odd man out?
    The brits.
    Their enforcement is almost as crazy as NSW/Vic - BUT it appear the local
    authorities are the main perps there.
    The rest sort of conform to the pattern - the lower the figure of fatals
    supposedly involved with speed, the lesser the 'enforcement' measures
    applied. But, does that reflect the overall fatals per 1,000,000 Kms
    driven? Nope.
    It reflects the stats being bent to justify the speed taxes.

    Then again, in Tobyworld- "Stupid" is the main cause of crashes.
    There is such a thing as "stupid speed" admittedly, but all-in-all, the
    common denominator in crashes is virtually always "stupid" on the part of
    at least one party to every crash, and more often than any figures woud
    ever reveal on the part of all parties to the crash.

    Some classic examples.
    Stupid 1. runs a red light.
    Stupid 2. simply drives out in front of stupid 1.
    Result: Stupid 2 dead. Stupid 1 Injured.

    Stupid 3. is pissed. Stupid 4. lets Stupid 3. drive them somewhere. Stupid
    3. decides to cross double lines on a corner. Stupid 5. is driving along,
    head up arse, and fails to see stupid 3 being so up ahead, and when Stupid
    5 does see Stupid 3.(and 4.) on the wrong side of the road, sticks to their
    line, grips wheel and clenches teeth in defiance.
    Result: Stupid 3, 4 and 5 all dead.

    Stupid 6 is driving along, head up arse, and fails to notice that, in clear
    view, there are 15 vehicles up ahead stopped. All have brake lights on.
    There are two lanes. Stupid notices that the right lans is "full", so
    changes (stupid 6. is more likely to be in the right lane by definition) to
    the left lane which stupid 6. hasn't noticed also contains stopped vehicles
    - running up the rear of a semi-trailer, just after locking all wheels up
    and failing to release the brake and use the verge to decelerate without
    Note that both Stupid 7.,the last stopped vehicle in the right lane, and
    stupid 8., the semi driver, are dead-set involved here, because they both
    saw stupid 6. approaching 'at speed' and neither tapped their brake-lights
    on and off, nor hit the hazards. Stupid 8. is only slightly less culpable
    because unlike stupid 7, he didn't brake late in the first place which
    combined with all the other late brakers in the pack probably caused the
    bank-up in the first place. (But then again, he didn't care, did he.)
    Stupid 6. Gone.

    Fun as this is, and I could go on - I figure the point has been made for
    the time being.
    Toby Ponsenby, Jul 7, 2003
  7. You missed stupid 9 driving along feeling confident and safe at 140kph,
    has tyre blow out, or roo jump out, rolls and hits tree killing stupid 10 &
    11 just getting a lift home with him as he showed off his new safety
    inspired car.
    Or stupid 12 driving at 80kph in a residential street hits the anchors
    as he sees stupid kid 13 rolling onto the road on his skateboard/scooter,
    doesn't stop in time but car & stupid 12 are OK because he was only doing
    V90. Stupid 13 has a major brain hemorage, ends up in ICU for 6 weeks before
    coming out dead, half vegetable or just paraplegic.

    Speed doesn't cause accidents but defineately has an effect on the outcome.

    Brisbane, Australia
    Rainbow Warrior, Jul 7, 2003
  8. Uncle Bully

    FuTAnT Guest

    Well, guess who mine is .... hmmm ... Bob Carr ...
    FuTAnT, Jul 7, 2003
  9. Uncle Bully

    Vulture Guest

    When was the last time your tyre blew out?
    It's not exactly a common event. The tyres on both my car and motorcycle can
    easily handle a constant 140km/h with negligable risk of "blow out". How many
    accidents on high speed European roads are caused by tyre blow outs?
    Vulture, Jul 7, 2003
  10. Back in 88 as passenger though, mum had a near new Kelly blow out on the
    front of the Urvan at 100kph, lovely safe feeling.
    Saw a Commodore just last week on the side if the freeway with a tyre that
    somehow developed a visible sized hole.
    I dont't drive on European roads so don't give sh*t about their lack of roo
    strikes either.
    Brisbane, Australia
    Rainbow Warrior, Jul 7, 2003
  11. Uncle Bully

    Johnnie5 Guest

    do you have a service manual ???

    Joe in Bendigo would like one :)
    Johnnie5, Jul 7, 2003
  12. Uncle Bully

    Knobdoodle Guest

    Be buggered; I'm already paying off my parent's pensions AS WELL AS paying for my own!
    (And youse Bekkers bastards live for EVER!!)
    Get skrote to pay....
    Knobdoodle, Jul 7, 2003
  13. Who give's a shit whether the guy hitting you crossing the road is doing
    50kph or 80kph?

    Brisbane, Australia
    Rainbow Warrior, Jul 7, 2003
  14. Uncle Bully

    Nev.. Guest

    you can contact him at

    Nev.., Jul 7, 2003
  15. Uncle Bully

    Tommy in Oz Guest

    My local federal member is Mark Latham! So I win you arse licker! :)

    Tommy in Oz, Jul 7, 2003
  16. Uncle Bully

    Paulus Guest

    Speed is not an issue. Our planet is speeding around the core of the galaxy
    and we are no worse off. Change in momentum and vectors, they are the real
    Paulus, Jul 7, 2003
  17. Uncle Bully

    Mot Adv Guest

    "Rainbow Warrior" <
    So if stupid 9 was within the 110 km/h speed limit, these things would not
    have happened? How then do we explain this in NT where no 'absolute'
    government guidance applies?

    Perhaps stupid 9 was at 102km/h in a 110km/h zone and acheives same; or
    he's actually doing the 140km/h but is in a 50km/h zone with roos (Kariong
    NSW), or
    he's southbound along the F3 NSW, right lane, when suddenly stupid 12 -
    looking down to change CD's, appears within an instant wearing a wide grin
    as he looms from the thick median scrub and collides with our stupid 9's
    rear quarter-end causing him to spin and ruin his rear fog lamp. Stupid 12
    in this example rolls then dies as his car goes 'poof' - up in fire!

    NSWFB are now attending to extinguish the flames, one of them - stupid 13 ,
    paged to urgent work, is not wearing a safety vest and is up the road where
    wire rope median barrier is installed, he steps over the barrier to slow
    oncoming vehicles down, it's a quick necessity after all and he steps into
    the path of an oncoming car and is killed.

    Stupid 13 is later found to have a concentration of alcohol in his system
    exeeding .05. What killed this fireman? Not wearing the required safety
    vest? The wire-rope median barrier, it after all 'required' him to step
    over it in his later discovered state (Ulyssees M/C note) or the oncoming
    driver who ended up collecting him?

    Who and what is the 'cause' of this initial crash involving stupid 9? Is
    stupid 9 @ 140km/h or the distracted stupid 12 responsible? It is after all
    entered in our database as 'speed related'.

    Ahh yes, but this is residential street is a default 50km/h, this 80km/h is
    not necesarily V90, . . .

    Stupid 13 has a major brain hemorage, ends up in ICU for 6 weeks before
    and enters politics where he runs for 'President of Burma', pity because
    he's not Burmese so we'll offer him a position with VicRoads where he can
    give road safey lessons to young drivers through in a court process, about
    'fast car drivers' and what horrible things they've done to HIM.....

    We once employed a man with a red flag, until he was run over and killed in
    action. A rooster was nearby and screeched the whole thing to police, who
    cycled to the scene faster than the car was driving.

    We then invented the warning triangle, it is, thankfully when left alone,
    Speed kills, do the speed limit and your safe as . . . . ?
    Mot Adv, Jul 7, 2003
  18. Large number of trees out there with 415 or better up them - which tends to
    complicate environmental terrorism a little.
    These are of course are special trees which by GovCo decree, are allowed to
    Toby Ponsenby, Jul 7, 2003
  19. Tyres don't blow out on modern cars... not so that it makes the car
    Same happens at 40kmh in a 50 zone.

    People collect Darwin awards for stupid things regardless of speed.
    Bernd Felsche, Jul 7, 2003
  20. What's a tree doing in the road?

    Even 60 isn't slow enough. Hitting a tree side-on will probably kill
    at 40 kmh.
    Bernd Felsche, Jul 7, 2003
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