Ping the bone breakers

Discussion in 'UK Motorcycles' started by Lady Nina, Jul 22, 2009.

  1. Lady Nina

    Snowleopard Guest

    Snowleopard, Jul 23, 2009
    #81
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  2. Lady Nina

    Ace Guest

    Quite true.
    How so? If you're convinced enough, then there's a possibility that
    you'll persuade yourself that you feel better with the branded
    variety, but the drug itself will NOT affect you any differently.
     
    Ace, Jul 23, 2009
    #82
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  3. I'm reasonably sure the active component was identical to the original,
    as (I assume) the patent had run out and it was open season for a copy
    or licence, but the rest of it (binders, coating, etc) might have been
    different enough for the effect on me to be noticeable.

    Whatever, I definitely felt a difference. Not in the pain-killingness of
    it, that worked well enough, but it had an effect in other ways that the
    real McCoy never did or hasn't since - slight spacieness, etc.
     
    Grimly Curmudgeon, Jul 24, 2009
    #83
  4. When suffering multiple brusing /breakages etc, I've certainly noticed
    that BigPain over-rides little pain. Seems I (and I don't think I'm
    unique) can only pay attention to one real pain at a time.
    So, I propose a new regime of distracting pain... to be administered by
    an auto-hammer on the big toe, whenever the back pain, shoulder pain,
    etc is too much.
     
    Grimly Curmudgeon, Jul 24, 2009
    #84
  5. Lady Nina

    Ace Guest

    Yeah, the patent on ibuprofen ran out many years ago, at least as
    early as 1990, and probably before that. Google tells me that the
    patent was granted in 1961, so would have expired in 1981 (although in
    some exceptional circumstances a five-year extension may be granted).

    Interestingly enough, the 'original' non-generic version was marketed
    by Boots as 'Rufen', not 'Brufen'. So all you're actually doing is
    copmparing one of the more well-known brands of generic ibuprofen with
    one of the lesser-known ones. Other known brands include Nurofen and
    Advil, but they're just as much generic versions as are the ones you
    can buy in packs of 1000 in most US supermarkets.
    No. Brufen just comes with a pretty standard outer coating, the same
    as is found on most other versions. If specific coatings, which may
    affect the way it's either metabilised or absorbed, were developed
    then they themselves would be subject to a new patent, and have to go
    through the same formal approval processes as those that my users work
    on every day. _Lots_ of work, very expensive and very public, and only
    done when a clear advantage would be gained, both in marketing and
    medical terms.

    Examples of this include the enteric coating now found on some
    versions of Zantac(TM). The patent on the drug itself expired a decade
    or more ago, and generics in abundance have been made, but Glaxo then
    tried (with some success, IIRC) to corner a specific market segment by
    introducing ths new, patent-protected coating that increases its
    uptake rate by stopping it getting killed off by the very stomach acid
    it's trying to counter. Or something like that.
    That was just you, then. No way could it have been the drug itself.
    Especially given that your conclusion is based on the fallacious
    assumption that Brufen is 'the real McCoy'. As I mention above, it's
    no more or less 'real' than any other brand.
     
    Ace, Jul 24, 2009
    #85
  6. Lady Nina

    Ace Guest

    You are indeed correct. Little signals get lost in a jumble of bigger
    signals. It's one of the suggested means of action for paracetamol and
    the like, which seek to fool the Central Nervous System into thinking
    it's got lots of big signals, so dulling its sensitivity to the
    smaller ones.
    Yeah, that'd work.
     
    Ace, Jul 24, 2009
    #86
  7. Lady Nina

    Champ Guest

    I thought everyone who'd crashed a bike knew that.

    You pick yourself up and rub the bit that hurts. A little while
    later, you find that various other bits hurt too.
     
    Champ, Jul 24, 2009
    #87
  8. Lady Nina

    Beav Guest

    Good luck on that. (really). If there's been a break and no bone growth in
    the first 6 weeks, they'll have you wait a little longer, but *much* longer
    without bone growth and it becomes obvious to those who know, that there
    probably never will be any new growth and the plates holding the parts
    together (if there are any) are guaranteed to fail, so a graft is the final
    step. But it's the best one.

    Good luck in you attempt to avoid surgery though.

    --
    Beav

    VN 750
    Zed 1000
    OMF# 19
     
    Beav, Jul 24, 2009
    #88
  9. Lady Nina

    Beav Guest

    The first graft the missus had taken from her hip was so well done that she
    didn't even know her hip had been operated on until 3 or 4 days later. Mind
    ewe, she was doped up to the eyeballs and the first operation scar is only
    about an inch long. The second one though, well that's a fucking cracker of
    a job. A good 3 inches of cutting and it *really* looks like she's been
    kicked by a rather large horse. An angry, rather large horse too.

    We asked her consultant why she was so badly bruised and he said he wanted
    as bloody a piece of bone as he could get, but unfortunately that means the
    area where the donor graft was taken from will bleed for some time after the
    operation. By **** was he right. She's currently turning bright yellow from
    some wonderful blues and reds, but she's not hurting too badly.




    --
    Beav

    VN 750
    Zed 1000
    OMF# 19
     
    Beav, Jul 24, 2009
    #89
  10. Well, yes. But not because of any perception or expectation of the
    placebo effect as it might affect efficacy or otherwise of a generic. I
    have long since been used to generics and didn't expect the effects I
    had.
    You are not me and you were not in my head or body at the time, I'm
    reasonably sure. I can assure you the effects were quite unpleasant,
    especially if I was driving, so much so that I discarded the medicine
    and got some branded stuff.
     
    Grimly Curmudgeon, Jul 24, 2009
    #90
  11. Lady Nina

    zymurgy Guest

    ****, you're a ray of sunshine :-0

    Paul.
     
    zymurgy, Jul 24, 2009
    #91
  12. Lady Nina

    zymurgy Guest

    Heh, I rode over to A+E to get myself checked out after the 1st bandit
    crash. Hadn't realised I had a broken shoulder. Adrenalin helps.

    Paul.
     
    zymurgy, Jul 24, 2009
    #92
  13. Lady Nina

    Ace Guest

    I'm not suggesting otherwise, but to maintain with such absolute
    certainty that a single episode of unpleasant effects was a result of
    using generic ibuprofen is ridiculous.

    http://xkcd.com/552/
     
    Ace, Jul 24, 2009
    #93
  14. Lady Nina

    Beav Guest

    Yep, I should've said "Stick a plaster on it and it'll heal overnight". Much
    more ukrm.


    --
    Beav

    VN 750
    Zed 1000
    OMF# 19








    Paul.
     
    Beav, Jul 24, 2009
    #94
  15. Lady Nina

    dog Guest

    tease
     
    dog, Jul 24, 2009
    #95
  16. Lady Nina

    frag Guest

    took a blunt brush and painted...
    On a sort of related note I noticed early on in my days of taking co-codamol
    that the ones without the smooth coating started working a lot quicker but
    did not last anywhere as long.

    The smooth coated ones obviously resisted the stomach acid longer, they took
    longer to kick in but lasted quite a bit longer. Wether that was due to
    dissolving slower and being absorbed over a longer time, or more of the
    active drug made it into my blood stream I don't know.

    I told my local chemist this and for years after they made sure they stocked
    the ones I like rather than the other (quicker acting / shorter lasting)
    ones.

    I like my chemist :)
     
    frag, Jul 24, 2009
    #96
  17. Lady Nina

    Ace Guest

    Both are possible. Better rates of absorbtion can be acheived (for
    some drugs) if they pass through the stomach into the intestine.
    Jude's gone to bed so I can't check with her on whether this is
    particularly true for long chain molecules like paracetamol, or for
    the opiode types.

    There's a lot of stuff on the web about it - this one seems to explain
    the subject in lay terms quite well.
    http://www.merck.com/mmhe/sec02/ch011/ch011c.html
     
    Ace, Jul 24, 2009
    #97
  18. We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the

    Indeed. It becomes even more obvious with long-term pain. A little
    relief from chronic aches is actually a relief on the days when it's
    playing up, by an accidental injury to some other part.
    Ditto. After being knocked off while filtering I rode home to dump my
    kit then rode to A&E. I didn't get to ride any further that day, not
    with a busted collarbone. Thought the grinding noise was indicative of
    some attention needed. The most painful part was my right wrist.
     
    Grimly Curmudgeon, Jul 25, 2009
    #98
  19. Lady Nina

    Beav Guest

    99 change...


    --
    Beav

    VN 750
    Zed 1000
    OMF# 19
     
    Beav, Jul 25, 2009
    #99
  20. It's a lot less ridiculous than you, who is not chemically or medically
    qualified, telling me it's impossible.
     
    Grimly Curmudgeon, Jul 25, 2009
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