bikerbetty wrote: [QUOTE] I've never met Bren but I like her already. Vertically-challenged peeps like us need to stand strong. I wonder just how many of us it would take for bike manufacturers to actually take notice???[/QUOTE] An awful lot! ..and you'd need to be organised, and, hardest of all amongst bike riders, you'd need to agree on what you wanted. [QUOTE] See, I reckon the problem is that too many SHORT riders (mostly male) don't arc up about tall bikes - I suspect the Small Man Syndrome prohibits it. Ever since I started riding (gee, a whole 3 years now...) I've maintained if enough of us complained/grovelled/begged nicely, the bike manufacturers might take notice, and start looking at making grunty sportsbikes for the vertically-challenged. My main obstacle has always been the Small Man market, which seems too proud to admit that tall bikes can be a problem for short people. Sure, riding a too-tall bike is possible - with a bit (actually, quite a LOT) of effort and confidence, but it's just MEAN. I love riding so much, but I can only DREAM of the comfortable, thoughtless, effortless aspects of parking etc that go with being a decent height... I guess one of the issues is that shortness is generally associated with being female - and female riders are such a minority within the total riding population that they are seen as "negligible" as a market group. If more of the MALE sector of the vertically-challenged sportsbike rider population decided to demand shorter bikes for shorter riders, instead of being so bloody stoic, we might have a hope in hell of actually achieving something. The manufacturers might actually stat listening..... (or am I just dreaming again....?)[/QUOTE] A few years back, now, Honda in Europe went through their sales figures and decided that they weren't selling Hondas to women in the numbers they expected. So they picked a person to do some testing and research..... a bloke. :-( Now, he was quite a short bloke, but, with that kind of attitude, <shrug> what can you expect. Also, as an aside, they found that most countries, most women complained about bikes being too tall. Except Italy. Subsequent research found that Italian ladies, riding bikes, wore high-heeled boots. :-) To be fair, "they" do make small bikes, just not ones like you want. Anyone who claims a Baby Blade is comfy and is over 5'4" is a liar. R1100R and R850R BMW's have a possible seat height of 760 mm. Triumph Bonnies and Guzzi Brevas have neat low seats. None of these bikes are actually slow. Most of my bike riding life, because of a stuffed back, I have not been able to ride (for any length of time) a fully faired sports bike, but have had to look for bikes which allowed me to sit fairly upright. Should I rail against the bike makers for not building a bike to suit me, or should I get on with it enjoying riding what I can ride? regards, CrazyCam