I've not bothered with the WRC Rally of Wales for years, but you could expect to get a guide showing the stage layout and giving information about warning signs and general no-go area advice. The TT/MGP is a good, but not perfect analogy. Some rally stages loop backwards and forwards for miles in dense forest. The scope for spectators to wander about is probably greater. In fact, unless they have completely changed things, there is no prohibition on crossing or even walking down the side of the course. Many areas are clearly taped off and signed as prohibited. When a popular spot gets very crowded the marshalls often have trouble keeping folk out of them. See Marc's post. Perhaps that's why I stick to grass roots motorcycle sport which generally has no spectators or wages. But then even the fast boys are slow as **** aren't they. I know which I would still rather do given the choice between watching a Group B car in a forest at night, or a mickey mouse two at a time floodlit stadium stage. In fact, I would still pay a reasonable price to watch the former. -- +----------------------------------------------------------------+ | Pete Fisher at Home: | | Voxan Roadster [ SPACE ! ] Yamaha WR250Z | | Gilera GFR * 2 Moto Morini 2C/375 Morini 350 "Forgotten Error" | +----------------------------------------------------------------+
You also get some right little jobsworth cunts in orange jumpsuits who love to throw their weight around.
<Best put your fingers in your ears Snowy!> Hill climb marshals are the salt of the earth - even the 'professionals'[1] like Snowy. Often as not at all bike meetings though they are volunteers without whom we riders wouldn't get our jollies. At Hartland Quay they have to cope with pesky ramblers who demand the right to cross the hill whenever they like because a public footpath crosses it. Sometimes, they could do with the Guantanamo handcuffs to deploy as well as the orange jumpsuits. Mind you, crowd control is usually the least of their worries. [1] Don't take that the wrong way. -- +----------------------------------------------------------------+ | Pete Fisher at Home: | | Voxan Roadster [ SPACE ! ] Yamaha WR250Z | | Gilera GFR * 2 Moto Morini 2C/375 Morini 350 "Forgotten Error" | +----------------------------------------------------------------+
It's a *public* footpath and you have an issue with people who "demand" that they use it whenever they like?
The footpath may be public, but the road it crosses is private (otherwise there could be no hill climb). There is an alternative path which requires a detour of no more than 100 metres. The marshals (and the ACU track certificate) say that they can cross it on the 'normal' path, but only between batches when no bikes are running. But, no, they demand to cross it just where they like and when they like. -- +----------------------------------------------------------------+ | Pete Fisher at Home: | | Voxan Roadster [ SPACE ! ] Yamaha WR250Z | | Gilera GFR * 2 Moto Morini 2C/375 Morini 350 "Forgotten Error" | +----------------------------------------------------------------+
You've obviously never encountered any militant ramblers. They almost certainly go there specifically to disrupt the event. Needless to say they don't demand all traffic stops immediately when a footpath crosses a public road, or when it's a horse event. The concepts of fairness or live & let live are completely alien to them unless they're the ones benefitting from it.
It's the sort of behaviour I've encountered numerous times over several decades of trailriding & marshalling at enduros. With the trailriding, they're on the other side of the fence, trying to block me riding my perfectly legal bike along a perfectly legal road. On enduros, particularly Welsh forest rallies, they do as Pete described.
TBF, I'm not sure it is planned disruption, but the hill climb only happens on two days a year and the dates are easily looked up though. I think we just get unlucky occasionally with a party being led by a Captain Mainwaring type who doesn't want to lose face in front of his platoon. They may have to wait quite a while for the end of a batch if they insist that they absolutely have to do the definitive route (long distance coastal path). They could even walk down the side of the hill and perhaps have a half of Inches cider from the hotel while they watch the action for a bit before picking up the proper path again, without missing any of the spectacular view. -- +----------------------------------------------------------------+ | Pete Fisher at Home: | | Voxan Roadster [ SPACE ! ] Yamaha WR250Z | | Gilera GFR * 2 Moto Morini 2C/375 Morini 350 "Forgotten Error" | +----------------------------------------------------------------+
Stubborn to the point of idiocy indeed. -- +----------------------------------------------------------------+ | Pete Fisher at Home: | | Voxan Roadster [ SPACE ! ] Yamaha WR250Z | | Gilera GFR * 2 Moto Morini 2C/375 Morini 350 "Forgotten Error" | +----------------------------------------------------------------+
Must admit, I enjoy my hill walking and I can't understand those types. But then, I specifically choose routes where I'm unlikely to come across anything man-made because to me, that's the whole point.
Most Ramblers, such as Pat and I, are perefctly reasonable types. But, as always, a minority gives the rest a bad name.
Since they won't listen to reason .. Send up a 'pace/safety car' then if you don't want to risk any riders. Once they've scattered a few times they might get the message. Paul.
What would the reaction be when the rambler poured a gallon of old sump oil down the hill? If I was given "the message" by a jump suited **** in a pace car he'd be going home feeling rather sorry for himself.
You takes your choice. The TT course is a public highway, which I can cross at will anytime I like. I doubt it'd be sensible to try during the racing, but that'd be my own choice to make .. The ramblers are endangering themselves (and the riders) by their course of action, which is (easily) avoidable by them taking another route. Paul.
Ah, but that's not true, is it? AIUI, it's officially closed, which is why all marshals have special constable powers for the duration of the races.
On Mon, 5 Oct 2009 07:15:45 -0700 (PDT), zymurgy snip> You risk going to jail if you wander onto the TT course during periods when the roads are closed. You either didn't know or have forgotten but TT marshals have the powers of plod during those periods and if you disregard their instructions the race can be stopped. Stop one of those races and you _will_ go to jail. Maybe the organisers should do a better job and sort out a temporary injunction banning using the road during the climb but if they can't get that then they're running the climb in the wrong place.
Incorrect. They have a nice little legal thing called The Road Races Act 1982, which effectively revokes all access and makes it a finable offence, and of course you would be arrestable[1] if you're causing a danger. [1] Marshals are given the rights of a constable during the race too, so you're going daahn you slag.
It's been running there for 30 years. How much would such an injunction cost in legal fees? This is grass roots motorcycle sport not the TT. A fair few grockles in cars turn up and are sometimes miffed that they can't drive down to the hotel car park and have to park at the top. Tough shit, the hotel owners prefer to lose their custom rather than ours. There are marshals at the point at which the usual path crosses the road. They politely explain what is going on and point out the alternative route. So you would say "**** that I'm crossing here and now."? You surprise me. -- +----------------------------------------------------------------+ | Pete Fisher at Home: | | Voxan Roadster [ SPACE ! ] Yamaha WR250Z | | Gilera GFR * 2 Moto Morini 2C/375 Morini 350 "Forgotten Error" | +----------------------------------------------------------------+
Ah, we're back to the old favourite that because it's 'grass roots' they can forget to do things that'd make their lives easier. Where did I say that? I wouldn't do it but I'd understand if others weren't happy that people were illegally preventing them using a right of way and I'd understand it even more if they were harassed by a course car as was earlier suggested. This isn't how to win over public opinion btw. Trail riders have been fighting for years to retain their rights to use certain trails and they don't do it by dressing up like a refugee from gitmo and stopping others from going about their business.
