Regulator/Rectifiers?

Hi folks.

Another thread reminded me of this question, which some of the assembled
electrical type folks may be able to help me with.

I have a Triumph Street Triple.

It was built in the era of no on/off switch for the headlights.

I want to be able to switch the headlights off when I feel like it.

I have figured out the wire that I need to cut, and splice in an extra
relay, and switch to achieve this end.

Now, this butchery of wiring has been slowed down by the fact that I
need to remove the petrol tank to do it, and I was waiting for some
other requirement for the tanks removal before I did the add-in relay
business.

Since I planned this, however, I have heard of a number of cases of
Striples' R/Rs failing. :-(

My low level understanding of what an R/R does is that it neatly
disposes of any excess electricity generated by the alternator, so I am
worried that if I suddenly reduce the amount of electricity being used
up, lighting the headlights... some 100Watts... I'll then be more likely
to have the reg/rec fail.

Any thoughts?

regards,
CrazyCam

 

My equally limited understanding is that the regulator limits the flow
of electricity to what the battery requires by disposing of the excess
as heat, so I dunno how neat that really is. If the reg/rec can't shed
the heat fast enough, it heats up itself. Presumably if it overheats, it
cooks.

Possibly you can add things like fans to keep it cool - I read somewhere
about someone who added a computer chip cooling fan for exactly this
purpose.

There must be some tolerance built into the system, otherwise when your
headlight bulb blows your reg/rec goes up in flames 5 minutes later.

 

Yes, no, and maybe. Older systems do use the charge or heat rectifier
system. In electronics this is so seventies and eighties but, unfortunately,
in the automotive business, it is very much nineties and naughties. The
electronic industry changed over to phase modulated power supply regulation
in the mid eighties and most, but not all, motor manufacturers have caught
up by now. If you have the earlier form of regulation, known as 'past
transistor' regulation, then you may indeed have a regulator heat problem.
But your system also needs to be badly designed as well, As 90s Guzzies,
Ducatis, and Hondas, who all used pretty much the same crappy systems and
regulator failures were quite common. Current models of these have, I
believe gone modern and are using phase modulation which generates almost no
excess heat.

You probably have no way of finding out what system your Triple uses, but
these are the things to look for.

Theo

 

Did you once post that the 675 Daytona uses the same electrics but
DOES have a headlight-switch (in some markets)?
If so then it'd capable of handling it. ('though a CPU heatsing and
cooling fan is probably still a good insurance idea).

 

Cam,
I have the service manual for a street triple 2002 on pdf file
but,
it is a 23 Meg file
if you have a good broadband connection, I can send it

 

Just thought of another way Cam,
I can upload it to hotfile,
then you can download it from there
send me an email and let me know what you decide

 

Hi George.

Thanks for the offer, but I have the .pdf of the Street Triple 675
service manual.... and a great disappointment it is too! :-(

It's basically a Daytona 675 manual, and the bits that I wanted to see
are actually different in the Street Triple.

regards,
CrazyCam

 

On 11/26/10 11:58 AM, knobdoodle wrote:

Hi Clem.

I certainly hope I didn't post as such, 'cause it would mean I'm that
much closer to the Home for the Terminally Confused. ;-)

I _think_ the 600, 4 cylinder Daytona and the Speed Four (600) did have
the on/off switch, but I don't think the wiring loom would have carried
over to the Daytona 675 or Street Triple.

IIRC I caused some consternation when some of the poms realised that
they couldn't switch off their lights because of a euro-cratic decision.

regards,
CrazyCam

 

Thanks for that Theo.

I am fairly sure that my early model Striple has the "old tech" r/r but
is seems (so far) to work.

There was a spell, in 09, I think, where Triumph had lots of r/r
failures, but whether that was "old tech" or "new tech" I dunno.

I think, but can't be sure, that the current Daytona/Striple r/r is
probably "new tech" so I might investigate the possibility of fitting a
current model r/r to my bike.

regards,
CrazyCam

 

He might have a way of finding out even if Triumph don't tell him. If
it's an older style system that sacrifices voltage not required by
converting it into heat, then if he runs the bike for a while under
minimum electrical load, the regulator will become too hot to touch. If
it uses a newer solid state system, then it won't heat up.

Or have I misunderstood what you were trying to explain?

 

There seems to be a few sites with very detailed explanations and
recomendations for this.

 

no doubt the wiring goes up into the switchblock

or more so it prob has a loop at the plug

the pins are usually fairly easy to get out of the plug so could
possibly use a new switchblock and transfer the pins across to your
existing
plug to have a factory fit

but in all of that a switch would prob be far easier and cheaper

is there a headlight relay somewhere already ? so you wouldnt need to
fit another relay , just a switch and a couple of feet of wire

 

My low level understanding of what an R/R does is that it neatly disposes of any excess electricity generated by the alternator,
Going thru similar questionign on the XTZ.

Fired it up the other night at Damiges place, and the RR was way too
hot to touch within 1minute. Worried me so I asked on a few forums and
was told not to worry, they will get hot, but as Clem said, fans and
heatsinks cna help.

Brand new battery which could be the reason accordin to some too..

 

Yup! My thoughts exactly.

Well, there is a headlight relay, but it is a two way one, operating the
starter solenoid as well. This so, when you hit the starter button,
the headlights go out.

Hence my need for an extra relay.

regards,
CrazyCam

 

The Triumph lights dim a bit, but don't go completely out when I use the
starter.
I have found that it was a pain in the arse when I had an almost flat
battery, turned the key, lights came on, then press the starter and the
lights went out, along with the starter, so had to buy a new battery.
These days, the batteries don't last that long.
It's been only 5 years since I bought a new one for the Trump

 

Why?

If you ride with other riders, it's good to have headlights on so
people know where people are. And when you're not riding with other
riders, it's good to have headlights on so you can be seen earlier.

I doangeddit.

 

A lot of riders believe the headlights-on propaganda but if you pay
attention and *really* look at traffic especially in the later afternoon
and when you're heading towards the sun you'll see that there's many
situations where a lit headlight actually makes an oncoming bike less
noticeable rather than more noticeable.

In a lower-light situation one bright central light just disguises your
shape.
If you want to be noticed then cover the perimeter of your bike with
little pin-point lights like long-haul trucks and emergency vehicles do.
(or do as Crazy-Cam wants to do and present a distinct silohette instead!)

 

On the Noggie the headlights are out, parkers on, until the engine is
running. Sounds better to me. I've never been in a situation where I wanted
the headlights on when the engine wasn't running. Amazing how every
manufacturer comes up with a different solution.

Any ideas for a good waterproof switch. I'd be happy to mount it on the
'dash' panel, next to the 'turn the ABS off' button.

Theo

 

No, but I suggest that if it has a bloody great heat-sink positioned in the
airstream, then it has an old type system. These are typically half the size
of your palm. ( the palm of your hand, not your old Palm IV). New systems
will still need a heat-sink but it will be relatively small and probably not
on the front of the bike.

Theo

 

On 11/27/10 7:42 PM, Theo Bekkers wrote:

Hmm, could be part of the problem.....

Triumph, in their infinite wisdom, seem to have mounted the r/r behind
the engine, just in front of the rear shock unit, where the airflow
would be non-existent. Then, for extra heat, run an exhaust pipe up
fairly close to it.

This on the Daytona and Street Triples.

regards,
CrazyCam