Reliability of Chargers

You know how the Majesty Shop Manual is real finicky about removing
the battery or at least removing the (-) terminal even when doing a 12v/.8a
"trickle" charge, it makes me wonder how we haven't burn't out all our
bike's main fuse with all the other ways we charge the GT9B-4 and generics.

I have an AGM that can be "quick charged" to 12v/5amps in 1 hour,
and have charged at 12v/6amps for which I always take the (-) terminal
off...

I don't have a pluggin parking for Optimas and C-tek reg/tricklers,
so I still do it the manual way. Charging at 12v/1.5ah does the job for
constant chargers, and takes it to 15+ volts if you think it works better
past the 15volt limit.

I am considering an Optima charger with 20ft extension cord to drop
from my other apartment's 2nd floor, but I wonder about the Majesty Shop
Manual caution of removing the battery or at least removing the (-) terminal
in conjunction with the Optima 14.4volt limit charger.

You can do all the Volt/Amp/Watt math and say it's safe, but you
always wonder if there's something you left out which might by-pass the
40amp main fuse and burn your yamaha majesty scooter's electronics....

The "Permanently" terminal fixed Batt. terminal setup is a good
idea, since removing cowling A is a bit of a hassle after awhile, but the
rectifier has a 14.9 no-load volt limit but that's just mostly stator to
battery use, and if you wanna go with a 15 volt charge, trickle chargers
don't take that chance for that reason and take a "float" route
instead....right?

Still, sitting around for 5-6 hours for a battery to charge and
top-pu is a it of a draagggg for street parkers.

I've never heard of anything going wrong with Optima type chargers,
but that's still trickle, and a lot of AGM will allow 1 hour charges instead
of a 5 hour reg/trickle charge....so many decisions pending on one's limited
"storage" *situation*.

Bob

 

|> I've never heard of anything going wrong with Optima type chargers,
|>but that's still trickle, and a lot of AGM will allow 1 hour charges instead
|>of a 5 hour reg/trickle charge....so many decisions pending on one's limited
|>"storage" *situation*.

Correction
Should read:

I've never heard of anything going wrong with Optima type chargers,
but that's still trickle, and a lot of AGM will allow *5* hour charges
instead of a 1 hour reg/trickle charge....so many decisions pending on one's
limited "storage" *situation*.

ThanX

 

Does this machine NOT have an alternator ??
If so, how about fixing it so that you don't NEED a charger at all ???

Beyond that, 12V is 12V. The battery makes a good filter for spikes.
I wouldn't worry........when you actually need a charge.

 

|>Bob wrote:
|>
|>> Still, sitting around for 5-6 hours for a battery to charge and
|>> top-pu is a it of a draagggg for street parkers.
|>>
|>
|>Does this machine NOT have an alternator ??
|>If so, how about fixing it so that you don't NEED a charger at all ???
|>

Yeah the stator/gerator/alternator works well, to the point that it
consumes any ambient RF waves around the scoot......in short, my remote
parking "clicker" doesn;t work too well until I turn the bike off....

I'm using/experimenting with a Chinese AGM, and have had it for a
year....I don't ride regularly and it's mostly city stuff....I get 14volts
at 5,000rpm but city is about 4,000rpm on a "CVT" tranny.

|>Beyond that, 12V is 12V. The battery makes a good filter for spikes.
|>I wouldn't worry........when you actually need a charge.
|>

AGMs have less internal resistance than "wet" SLA, but generally
they are similar in operation even though the construction is a totally
different concept.

Here's a 12/6v Chart

State of Charge
Specific Gravity
Voltage


12V
6V

100%
1.265
12.7
6.3

*75%
1.225
12.4
6.2

50%
1.190
12.2
6.1

25%
1.155
12.0
6.0

Discharged
1.120
11.9
6.0

 

On Wed, 24 Jun 2009 22:20:18 -0700, Dennis Lee Bieber

|>On Wed, 24 Jun 2009 08:11:43 -0500, "Who Me?" <>
|>declaimed the following in alt.scooter:
|>
|>>
|>> Does this machine NOT have an alternator ??
|>> If so, how about fixing it so that you don't NEED a charger at all ???
|>>
|> If it is anything like my dung beetle, one would have to spend an
|>hour at cruise to do anything... Stop&Go city traffic won't do it --
|>idling at a light draws the voltage down to ~11, and it takes over two
|>blocks for the voltmeter to rise back to 13.7 (don't turn on the low
|>beam, that drops the voltages 0.2V)

Sounds about right here too.......

I looked at a lot a chargers (battery tender jr/plus), with the
terminal rings, but those rings are 18" and too short for any real use on a
majesty. without adding on some length and stuff, but still a trickle
charger is not too interesting in my situation, that is I can't leave it
charging overnight like some fortunate ppl can.

 

$12 or so at Kragen auto parts buys you a 6 LED
"alternator battery tester" that gives you a pretty
good idea of voltage. I've had one permanently installed
on the switched 12 volt circuit of my bike for years.

Are you really sure you've got a pair of 120 watt
headlights installed ? If that's really true, an HID
conversion would be a big power savings (at a
fancy price). I seriously doubt 240 watts of stock
lighting though. My bet would be under 100 watts.

 

Maybe you should look into a solar trickle charger.
The capacity is REALLY low but it might be enough to keep you
going.......assuming that someone doesn't steal it.....since it has to be
out in the open.

 

On Thu, 25 Jun 2009 23:02:13 -0700 (PDT), Rob Kleinschmidt

|>
|>Are you really sure you've got a pair of 120 watt
|>headlights installed ? If that's really true, an HID
|>conversion would be a big power savings (at a
|>fancy price). I seriously doubt 240 watts of stock
|>lighting though. My bet would be under 100 watts.

Right, 2X60 watts = 120 watts, then there's all the other lights...

Maybe the Gorilla alarm leeches off some power, but some say it
isn't much unless you install the pilot light as well, which I
disconnected.

But then, I'm using a Chinese AGM, not the usual GS GT9B-4 (Wet
cell vrla sla) type after I got a shorted cell with my last $215.00 GS one
month after the warranty expired.

I do have the original 5 year old GS GT9B-4 battery I use for jump
starts, since it can't hold much of a charge.

HID need more volts then all halogens and without the booster kit,
they would kill most 8amp batteries at startup.

 

120 watts is a lot for a smallish scoot/bike (I'd guess the Majesty 400
has about a 300 or 400 watt alternator). Assuming I've done my
arithmetic right (never guaranteed with me) 120 watts would drain a new
10AH battery in about an hour and an older one in probably much less.
In winter (near you in the northwest) when there's snow and ice I
sometimes go a month or more without riding. I figure it's enough to
charge my batteries for four or five hours at two amps or less, about
every two weeks but sometimes I go as much as much as month. I always
get at least five years out of a battery, both good Yuasa's and cheap
no-names, on my smallish scoots (70cc, 250cc, plus a few bigger ones I
don't have anymore). The cool or cold temps in winter are actually good
for storing batteries and it rarely gets as hot here as in, say,
southern California or Arizona.


Just for a quick test, I'd check the voltage drop across the Gorilla's
connectors when it's armed and then roughly calculate the current draw,
a one volt drop would be about a 0.1 amp draw. Or if the documentation
says it uses 2 or 3 watts when on, that would be roughly 0.1 or 0.2 amp
draw, which could run down a smallish bike battery in three or four
days. That might change my rough guidelines above and maybe you'd have
to charge once a week. It rarely gets freezing cold here, so the only
drag is getting wet when you remove it from the carpark.


I had a Suzuki Burgman 400 and a Vespa 250 and both of them charged at
idle, with the lights on. Lots of smaller bikes will charge at idle, I
presume because the designers know they're going to be used in
stop-and-go conditions, so they put in a slightly bigger alternator,
even though this hurts brake horsepower. If I were in the habit of
leaving the lights on for some reason, with the engine off, I think I'd
wire an on/off switch to the headlight circuit.


Another possible reason for running batteries down is whether you have
run-time accessories going, such as heaters.

 

....

Oh, another thought, since you have a second battery, you could prolong
the time between charges in the winter months by putting it in the
storage compartment and wiring it in parallel with the main battery,
then you might get a few more days with the Gorilla alarm armed.

 

Oh, here's another one for the experts here to criticize (no insult, I'm
always glad to be corrected, correctly!): If your battery troubles have
coincided with the use of the Gorilla, then it's possible that the
battery has been run down flat many times. That would certainly affect
the longevity of a battery, after a few times it will never re-charge to
the same current capacity as a battery that has never been discharged by
more than half of its capacity.

 

paul c wrote:
....

Oops, sorry, I think that would be nonsense if the ignition is off and
nothing else is in series with the alarm. You might have to measure the
current, not the voltage, but the current must be so small it won't hurt
a multimeter.

 

OK, Dennis, I see it's gonna be one of THOSE games........where you find
fault with every suggestion made. FINE. Your on you own. Have fun.

In order to improve your battery situation, some small change in your
lifestyle might be necessary...........like parking IN the sun at work. The
solar panels involved are not that large and are quite sturdy.........but I
guess you'd prefer to just keep crying and moaning.

Maybe you could eliminate the problem altogether by NOT arming the alarm
when simple logic should tell you that the likelyhood of theft is extremely
low..........like in the day time while you are at work.

 

Simple logic tells me that if the bike isn't in a secure place, and
you're nowhere near it, this is precisely the sort of time it would get
nicked.

 

On Thu, 25 Jun 2009 22:34:37 -0700, Dennis Lee Bieber

|>
|> OTOH: it is time for me hook up the intelligent charger for a few
|>hours -- just to ensure the battery hasn't sulfated (the charger has a
|>desulfate mode which attempts to desulfate a battery by using high
|>amperage pulses at around 15-16 volts)

You let that run through your system??? how's that???

With a no-load rectifier of 14.9.......I remove the (-) terminal
for that 15-16-17 volt stuff.... or am I just being paranoid somewhere.

 

On Fri, 26 Jun 2009 20:58:04 -0700, Dennis Lee Bieber

|> Well, it is a tad temperature sensitive -- a cold engine WILL charge
|>at idle, but after it warms up, it goes into the above condition.
|>Unfortunately, cold weather also affects batteries

Yep I've noticed that!

|> And I recall either reading, or maybe even some discussion with the
|>dealer, that some other large touring grade motorcycles have a similar
|>problem at idle.

Seems common after I talked at the new M/Cycle garage.....

Have you ever noticed, that with all those battery tender/chargers,
with the Terminal/post "O" rings cables, for your hard to access battery
terminals/posts.............then turn around in all THEIR manuals and say
to attach the (-) "O" ring cable to your chassis.

I know it's the spark safety thing, but these MF hardly ever screw
up, unless something unusual goes wrong......

I prefer the posts since that's what the (-) "O" ring cables were
made for, even if the manufacturers manual says otherwise.

I know we discussed the Battery Charging Kaboom!! before with some
grisly results....

 

|> I looked at a lot a chargers (battery tender jr/plus), with the
|>terminal rings, but those rings are 18" and too short for any real use on a

I stand corrected, I made a measurement scan, and found that the 18"
"O" rings that come with battery tenders will fit just right beneath the
"the battery" cowling"A" panel, and down the rear right signal light/fender
area.

But for "big ass" 1 hour charging, at 12v/4.5amps the cowling"A"
panel and the (-) terminal have to come off, since they aren't fused on that
manner.

Bob

 

On Sun, 28 Jun 2009 20:09:42 -0700, Dennis Lee Bieber

|>On Sun, 28 Jun 2009 15:23:17 -0700, Bob <> declaimed
|>the following in alt.scooter:
|>
|>
|>> But for "big ass" 1 hour charging, at 12v/4.5amps the cowling"A"
|>> panel and the (-) terminal have to come off, since they aren't fused on that
|>> manner.
|>>
|> And somebody was concerned about the desulfation mode of my charger?

I think that was voltage rate....really not much difference in most
chargers if then they borrow amps to volts and vice versa....

Sometimes I can't really see the difference between a *constant
voltage* charger and a *constant amps* charger as they discuss in the Yamy
shop manual....they might be full of shit there at some point.

|>At least I had it set to "small battery" (2A rate -- which is still a
|>tad fast for the battery size... Large battery rate is variable from 10
|>to 30A determined by the way the battery responds to the charger)

2-3 amps is not too much for a semi quick charge on most M/C
batteries....

 

X-No-Archive: yes

i use 10 amps for 20-30 minutes on 12n's without problems.

 

On Mon, 29 Jun 2009 05:17:53 GMT, wrote:

|>> 2-3 amps is not too much for a semi quick charge on most M/C
|>>batteries....
|>i use 10 amps for 20-30 minutes on 12n's without problems.

Do you remove the Battery Terminals?