Road Pricing

That's actually a statement that has been floating around just about
since the beginning of the "Green" movement but I've never really seen
any proper evidence to support it. However I think it is very popular
because it justifies the NIMBYism that boil up when people don't like
the new bypass scheme (as they don't live in the village centre).

Being cynical, I think that the "proof" goes something like this - say,
the M25 at Heathrow as x cars going through per hour averaged over a
week, including the times when it was at complete standstill. Now we
add a lane or two. It now stands to reason that we get more cars going
through per hour because the road is less congested and not operating
at 120% capacity. Voila - here's the proof that more or wider roads
cause more car usage.

 

I'd partially disagree with that - while I don't really live in a rural
area I do have a fairly hefty commute. I've just tried PT for several
months and despite being on a pretty decent train connection to
London[1], it blows dead goats in the value for money stakes. And
that's me comparing the total cost to my company - train ticket +
parking pass against the IR rate for bike travel (which works out even
more expensive than the first class ticket[2]). So in a sense I'm
producing unnecessary emissions by taking the bike as this works out so
much better for me despite the higher cost. And while I love riding
bikes, I'd be happy to sit on a decent, punctual and comfortable train
instead because I can do something else useful with that time.

Several other countries show that if you either do privatisation right
(Japan) or have the political will to invest into what I'd consider
crucial infrastructure (France, Switzerland), you can get decent PT
that is an actual alternative to a lot of car journey. You probably
still need a car or a horse & buggy out in the sticks but if you offer
a _decent_ alternative for the majority of travellers then you have a
way to reduce the number of car journeys.

[1] Bar the usual problems with rain, snow, leaves and shitty excuses
for non-running trains
[2] Which seems to incur a hefty surcharge for a better chance to get a
seat and having a little tray to put the laptop on - other than the
colour of the seat and the tray, there doesn't seem to be any
difference between first and cattle class on SouthEastern. Which IMHO
is another rip-off.

 

I've got a pretty decent Alpine Radio/Cassette + 6 CD changer
cluttering up the loft if you're interested.

 

They're doing that already in other countries like Germany. Running a
not-quite-yet-classic (less than 30 years old) is a serious pain in the
wallet as road tax is calculated using a combination of displacement
and emissions; cars meeting newer emissions standards get cheaper tax,
older cars and especially diesels are painfully expensive.

And in an especially interesting twist, even if the car would meet the
lower standards but hasn't been officially certified to meet them
(because they weren't around when it was new), you still get to pay the
higher tax.

It gets a bit better once the car is 30 years old as you can then get a
special "historic" number plate which gives you only restricted useage
on the car but cheap tax and insurance.

They'll be back in fashion once we run out of Diesel.

 

They've also raised the basic stamp duty threshold by a fair whack as
well, don't forget.[/QUOTE]

Not enough to make up for price rises. And they haven't lifted the 40%
income tax threshold anywhere near enough either.

 

Hmmm.

Why do people say congratulations?

All I did was move the Earth a bit.

 

I have noticed your comments about uk public transport. While you're
certainly not on the best part of the network with South Eastern you
really don't have a decent word to say about it, ever.

Do you hold the same view about German public transport which I
understand has had its issues in recent years with DB's performance
being appalling at times and various regional privatised operations
being less than sparkling?

I would cite Japan as a special case. The population density in the
major cities is such that they cannot function without effective rail
based transport. They also have a cultural approach to things like
efficiency and reliability that means they will fund levels of system /
asset redundancy that simply don't get past first base in the West. The
Shinkansen is also, in part, a huge R&D project for Japanese technology
and thus has a national priority that is only matched by the French
approach to the TGV. Maglev in Germany is the nearest parallel but this
does not have anything like the commercial application of the others.

And what an interesting two European countries to put forward as
examples of excellence.

France - renowned for its TGV network, some half decent local trains in
Paris and some other regions and a fair slice of tram development in key
cities. Utterly crap bus services that are almost non existent even in
the Paris fringes - Chateau Cab has one bus an hour and no local buses
of any use. There are virtually no regional buses of anything
approaching a decent frequency or density of network - for all our moans
about UK buses we knock the french into a cocked hat when the networks
are compared. The rail network is also distinctly variable once you get
off the main TGV network and cross country trains are inconvenient,
badly timed and have a different timetable for every day of the week.

Switzerland - good but unexciting rail network that just works. 20 year
strategy and funding to develop it. Reasonable town and city transport
networks based around trams, trolleybuses and some diesel buses.
Interurban and rural buses provided on a comprehensive and integrated
basis via the PTT network.

Give me Switzerland every time in terms of the breathtaking efficiency
of its transport. It's the only place where I have had to sit down in
shock / awe of how well the whole damn thing worked.

 

My overall experience with them hasn't been very good, I agree. I
actually thought I did post a positive comment when they got me home
during the bad storms a few weeks back[1] but overall, during usual
commuting hours I wasn't very impressed given that I am on a supposed
trunk line. Apart from the usual comedy during winter/snow and all
that, the trains are crowded enough for me to pay for first class
tickets and somehow the trains are always running late.

Please note that this is not _really_ an "all UK trains are crap" post
even though it may have sounded like that; I've used other parts of the
network over time and usually, it was pretty good. I guess once you
start using a service on a regular basis, you notice all the niggling
problems. And they do have a few...

I have only travelled a few times there in a past years and yes, I was
not very impressed with that either, especially when I had to make a
hurried visit to my lawyer near Heidelberg - doing that one a single
day round trip wasn't always easy.

I do like decent public transport and I do like taking the train
especially on a fairly boring, repetitive journey like the one to
work...


In case I didn't, they did a good job seeing that the normal line was
blocked by a blown-down tree. Took a while but it just worked.

 

You're right that the system is highly integrated and very popular.
I'm very happy about this because it means that traffic congestion is
very rare so my 15 mile drive to work takes less than 30 minutes and I
can drive to any ski resort in the country in less time than public
transport would take.

Of course, I avoid using it myself wherever possible. No matter how
clean, nice and reliable they may be, trains, buses and trams are
always full of other people.


--
_______
..'_/_|_\_'. Ace (brucedotrogers a.t rochedotcom)
\`\ | /`/ GSX-R1000K3 (slightly broken, currently missing)
`\\ | //' BOTAFOT#3, SbS#2, UKRMMA#13, DFV#8, SKA#2, IBB#10
`\|/`
`

 

I wouldn't expect any other comment. Can't have gold taps and be seen
on the bus too!

 

I'm not sure I agree, actually.

How much fuel will you use, covering the same distance in each
example?

I'm reasonably confident they won't be similar.
--
| ___ Salad Dodger
|/ \
_/_____\_ GL1500SEV/CBR1100XXX/CBX1000Z
|_\_____/_| ..87918../..23274.../..31893.
(>|_|_|<) TPPFATUICG#7 DIAABTCOD#9 WG*
|__|_|__| BOTAFOT #70 BOTAFOF #09 PM#5
\ |^| / IbW#0 & KotIbW# BotTOS#6 GP#4
\|^|/ ANORAK#17 IbB#4 YTC#4 two#11
'^' RBR Clues: 00 Pts:0000 Miles:0000

 

On 13 Feb 2007 04:27:37 -0800, TOG@toil,

I've moved house four times in the same job.

Gillingham - Clapham - E Acton - N Acton - IOD.

Since 1982, I've ridden into work probably four days out of five, and,
in my experience,the journey has got better. I imagine no longer
needing to usethe Westway has helped a lot in this regard.

The Highway is chokka every morning[1], but it's apiece of piddle
tooling down Cable Street, which runs parallel.

The run up the A3 in the 80's was awful, but nothing compared to the
Hell that wa the A40 of an evening.

[1] Almost entrely caused by folk queueing to turn south over Tower
Bridge.
--
| ___ Salad Dodger
|/ \
_/_____\_ GL1500SEV/CBR1100XXX/CBX1000Z
|_\_____/_| ..87918../..23274.../..31893.
(>|_|_|<) TPPFATUICG#7 DIAABTCOD#9 WG*
|__|_|__| BOTAFOT #70 BOTAFOF #09 PM#5
\ |^| / IbW#0 & KotIbW# BotTOS#6 GP#4
\|^|/ ANORAK#17 IbB#4 YTC#4 two#11
'^' RBR Clues: 00 Pts:0000 Miles:0000

 

Using the patented Mavis Beacon "Hunt&Peck" Technique, SD

Really? I'd have thought that would be something of a battle.

--
Wicked Uncle Nigel - Podium Placed Ducati Race Engineer as featured in
Performance Bikes and Fast Bikes

WS* GHPOTHUF#24 APOSTLE#14 DLC#1 COFF#20 BOTAFOT#150 HYPO#0(KoTL) IbW#41
SBS#39 OMF#6 Enfield 500 Curry House Racer "The Basmati Rice Burner",
Honda GL1000K2 (Falling apart) Kawasaki ZN1300 Voyager "Oh, Oh, It's so big"
Suzuki TS250 "The Africa Single" Yamaha Vmax Honda ST1100 wiv trailer

 

Probably. However applying artificial "values" to road space doesn't
even begin to get near the root of the problem. It might cause some
localised and temporary fluctuations, but if the problem is
exponentially growing car numbers in a finite space then it will only
ever be a temporary expedient. It's a typical politicians answer to a
complex problem.

 

Can't argue with that.
With a nod to Timo I was thinking Scotland when referring to (semi) rural
commuting and it just isn't practical to put in a decent PT system with so
few people in such a large space. It's better in NI where a bus system is
more practical but there is no decent train/tube/tram system to back it up.

I like commuting by train if at all possible, I did so in London until I
started cycling across the city. It was cheap and not crowded in 1986
though.

 

TBF I sometimes enjoy the opportunity to sneer at them

 

The strange thing is that it would work! only a UK Gov committee approach
could make it SO bad

 

"The only reason they put windows on buses is to humble people of color
who have to ride them"

 

Thanks for the offer. I might take you up on it. We have a Sony CD
headunit that was given to her by someone at work, but I'm not sure if
it works. Got it all plugged in last weekend but couldn't get it to
come on. They're sure the headunit works, so I need to get a
multimeter on the wiring in the car to check it's getting power.

If the car's fine then the headunit must be shafted, so I'll let you
know.