Saint John of The Cross 9-21-95

"pretty certain" is about right.
"Absolutely Certain" would IMO be impossible to prove.
essentially, i'm "pretty damn sure" there is no god - with reasoned arguments
in that direction which i linked you to in another post.

Logic and Science are intermingled concepts, but pure logic deals badly with
probability and possibility. (i'm not going to get into "fuzzy" logic here)
Given the available evidence, from a scientific standpoint, i see no reason
to believe that any god(s) exist (and significant evidence supporting the idea
that they do not) so therefore I do *not* believe that any god(s) exist - Hence
Atheist. *However* it would be to my mind impossible to prove the non-existance
of something which basically by definition cannot be observed in any meaningful
sense, so i must alas remain *Agnostic* as to the possibility of god being
proven to, or proven not to, exist.

Unless you want to debate the merits of some of that evidence regarding the
likelyhood, necessity, or possibility of the existance of gods, i think we've
gone as far as this discussion will go.

Been fun though ;-)

 

heh. my basic problem with Agnosticism as a self-descriptive term is that it only
holds that it is impossible to know either way. it covers the full spectrum from

"i dunno and i think its impossible to know, but i reckon He most likely exists"
to
"i dunno and i think its impossible to know, but i reckon He most likely Doesn't exist"

Which is why i call myself an Atheist - my position is stronger than that.

"as far as i can see, He doesn't exist, but as i have a scientific mind if you show me
*good* evidence to support His existence then i may change my mind" - note that as the
claim of the existence of a supernatural being is an extraordinary one to make, it
requires extraordinary proof (i.e considerably more than a few shaky camcorder tapes
or stage tricks)

 

Catholics aren't allowed to wrap it up for God.


BTH

 

Careful Theo, that'll result in you being lbelled an ivory-tower sitter!


BTH

 

Sorry Kev, only believers go to heaven/hell. Unbelievers just stay dead.


BTH

 

Well, that's a relief.

regards,
CrazyCam

 

That's what I was thinking. Look what Pan does to your sig - an unhappy
block. It knows, it knows. [1]

--
Regards

Andrew

[1] I have no idea why this happens.

 

I recall being told once

" Arguing with an idiot will see you bested"

"he will beat you with experience"


so perhaps where jerry is concerned to be taken under advisement ?

 

Unless they're ZOMBIE UNBELIEVERS!!!!!!!!

 

In aus.motorcycles on Mon, 19 Apr 2010 19:23:03 +1000

Obvious? Not until the making of lenses good enough to make
telescopes from.

Until then it was a world wide belief that the sun went round the
earth as that was the most sensible idea given the observations
available.

There were all sorts of variations on the three kingdoms of sky,
earth,ocean, with water in the oddest of places, but an orbiting
earth, no.



Zebee

 

It makes every day a little more worthwhile to know that I won't be
spending eternity in the constant company of god-botherers.

I've never understood why so many people get so excited about the idea of
"living forever" via organ transplants/robot bodies/recording your
consciousness into a computer/etc. That sounds remarkably like hell to me!


BTH

 

That's the pissweak position IMHO. Do you feel the same way about the
tooth fairy Kev? IOW, are you agnostic about the tooth fairy and
prepared to accept the silver coin when she calls on you? Or do you
just not believe in the tooth fairy, i.e, are you an atoothfarian? If
so, do you consider atoothfarianism to be a religion of which you are
a member?

Just because I call myself an atheist, it does not follow that my
disbelief in hundreds of thousands of deities is a religion. And yes,
I'm open to be proved incorrect, should the great pasta deity visit
me, and not just me, but a whole sabaoth of people, on multiple
occassions, I may inclined to believe in said deity. I don't consider
that to be an agnostic position.

Theo

 

I just believe in one less God than a Christian. And Christians are
absolutely positive there are no other Gods. IOW, they are atheistic
about the other million Gods. Shouldn't they be agnostic about all
those other gods?

Theo

 

You have no need to prove non-existence. The onus of proof is on the
people who claim there is a God, not on the person who says there
isn't any. I imagine if there was a God it would be quite easy to
prove his/her existence.

Theo

 

Is this your assertion?

Theo

 

Is there a c) "couldn't give a rat's-arse what you believe and I'm not
gonna' hassle you so please don't pester me either"?

That'd be the Nontheist approach.

 

As opposed to arguing the merits of Oolon Colufid's literary works? (ROFLOL)

 

Am I having hallucinations or is Gerry having a public argument with one of
his imaginary personas?

 

[chortle]
Now there's probably gonna' be a long hysterical argument about
glue-sniffing too!

 

I was excommunicated from the atoothfarians. I had to go and live in a
lake!