Secret of quiet up shifting?

Hi,

Working up through the box at high or even medium revs, I always
produce a loud thump whilst changing up through 1st, 2nd and 3rd. The
only way I can achieve a smooth change is by doing it very slowly,
carefully and at low revs.

It is not the bike, it is me!

I can manage a perfectly smooth clutchless change up everytime, but I
don't like doing it. So what is the technique, what am I doing wrong?

 

I've got a similar problem - everytime I hammer a nail into my skull,
it hurts, no matter how slowly & carefully I do it.

I can hammer nails into wood without it hurting everytime, but I don't
like doing it. So what is the technique, what am I doing wrong?

 

Gavsta was thinking very hard :

I don't think so.

I heard mention of 'pre-loading the pedal' - putting a small amount of
pressure on the gear pedal before pulling the clutch in. I have tried
it, but it seems little different to clutchless changes. As soon as you
dip the throttle it changes whether you pull the clutch in or not.

 

Which is the point of a clutchless shift. Is it still clunking?
--
Catman MIB#14 SKoGA#6 TEAR#4 BOTAFOF#38 Apostle#21 COSOC#3
Tyger, Tyger Burning Bright (Remove rust to reply)
Alfa 116 Giulietta 3.0l (Really) Sprint 1.7 155 TS
Triumph Speed Triple: Black with extra black bits
www.cuore-sportivo.co.uk

 

Should have read this bit. Stick with the clutchless changes, you really
don't need a clutch (IME) to upshift unless you're going slowly and may
need to feather.
--
Catman MIB#14 SKoGA#6 TEAR#4 BOTAFOF#38 Apostle#21 COSOC#3
Tyger, Tyger Burning Bright (Remove rust to reply)
Alfa 116 Giulietta 3.0l (Really) Sprint 1.7 155 TS
Triumph Speed Triple: Black with extra black bits
www.cuore-sportivo.co.uk

 

It was somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
drugs began to take hold. I remember Catman

If you don't really give a toss about the state of the gearbox
internals, you mean.

 

Is this one of those long standing things? Clutchless up-shifts shag your
box, or something?
--
Catman MIB#14 SKoGA#6 TEAR#4 BOTAFOF#38 Apostle#21 COSOC#3
Tyger, Tyger Burning Bright (Remove rust to reply)
Alfa 116 Giulietta 3.0l (Really) Sprint 1.7 155 TS
Triumph Speed Triple: Black with extra black bits
www.cuore-sportivo.co.uk

 

Only on wheelying shafties.

 

Odd. Mine seems OK, as did the Monster.......
--
Catman MIB#14 SKoGA#6 TEAR#4 BOTAFOF#38 Apostle#21 COSOC#3
Tyger, Tyger Burning Bright (Remove rust to reply)
Alfa 116 Giulietta 3.0l (Really) Sprint 1.7 155 TS
Triumph Speed Triple: Black with extra black bits
www.cuore-sportivo.co.uk

 

Ahhh, that explains it, then
--
Catman MIB#14 SKoGA#6 TEAR#4 BOTAFOF#38 Apostle#21 COSOC#3
Tyger, Tyger Burning Bright (Remove rust to reply)
Alfa 116 Giulietta 3.0l (Really) Sprint 1.7 155 TS
Triumph Speed Triple: Black with extra black bits
www.cuore-sportivo.co.uk

 

It was somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
drugs began to take hold. I remember Catman

Long term, they'll round off the engagement dogs and the box will start
jumping out of gear either on the upchange or the overrun.

Doesn't matter if you have the bike for a year or two from new and don't
put a lot of miles on then punt it on for the next owner to catch the
problem.

 

Hmmmm. Define 'long term for me'?
--
Catman MIB#14 SKoGA#6 TEAR#4 BOTAFOF#38 Apostle#21 COSOC#3
Tyger, Tyger Burning Bright (Remove rust to reply)
Alfa 116 Giulietta 3.0l (Really) Sprint 1.7 155 TS
Triumph Speed Triple: Black with extra black bits
www.cuore-sportivo.co.uk

 

It was somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
drugs began to take hold. I remember Catman

Depends on the hardness of the dogs, and one or two really muffed
changes might cause the damage.

 

It was somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the

Ah, but for how much longer? As I said above (or below, you can never
tell), it depends on the hardness of the material. The dogs are undercut
slightly so they're tolerant of a little bit of rounding off but one day
the wear will become too much and it'll start developing problems.

True, the upchange is easier on the box than the downchange, but the
problem remains the same.

 

Average mileage figujre? I mean, the Triple has >6k so far, the Monster had
similar.
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Catman MIB#14 SKoGA#6 TEAR#4 BOTAFOF#38 Apostle#21 COSOC#3
Tyger, Tyger Burning Bright (Remove rust to reply)
Alfa 116 Giulietta 3.0l (Really) Sprint 1.7 155 TS
Triumph Speed Triple: Black with extra black bits
www.cuore-sportivo.co.uk

 

It was somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
drugs began to take hold. I remember Catman

It's a how long is piece of string question. I've come across 'boxes
which have been fucked in 20k miles and others have went on for much
longer in relatively sympathetic clutchless changers hands. Otoh, some
folk are unlucky enough to have gearbox problems even though they always
use the clutch.

It's just a general thing; mechanical sympathy is learned and if you
envisage the little bits of metal whizzing around and suddenly being
forced into and out of mesh with one another without so much as a by
your leave you'd rapidly realise the impact on your future wallet.

Another thing; if the makers thought they could get away without giving
you a clutch, you wouldn't get one.

 

Well, I tend to base my mechanical sympathy on what I can feel and
hear........

Except one that worked on the down shift, perhaps

--
Catman MIB#14 SKoGA#6 TEAR#4 BOTAFOF#38 Apostle#21 COSOC#3
Tyger, Tyger Burning Bright (Remove rust to reply)
Alfa 116 Giulietta 3.0l (Really) Sprint 1.7 155 TS
Triumph Speed Triple: Black with extra black bits
www.cuore-sportivo.co.uk

 

It was somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the

Of course not, but they're not being forced into mesh in a loaded state.

 

It was somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the

Well it depends on getting it just right every time; a slight backing
off of the throttle to unload the geartrain just as you snick it up and
it should be ok. The real damage occurs when you muff a change and the
gears are forced into mesh while power is still being applied; the dog
corners are forced to slide over each other and there's a minute amount
of wear happens. Wear, as you know, is cumulative.
Sometimes the gears don't mesh properly and you get a nasty grunching
racket - that's trouble in store if you do that too often.

The Japanese are pretty good at gearboxes, I must admit; but even the
toughest box will eventually crack in the hands of the hamfisted (and
footed). Those geardogs are very tough but not indestructible.

Whatever; if folk are happy to carry on doing clutchless changes, it's
up to them. I'd be awfully leary of buying a s/h bike that'd been
subjected to thousands of clutchless changes by the PO, having been
caught that way before.

 

How's my Fazer going? that had at least 10k of clutchless upshifts.