social policy through grassing

I may well be an unintelligent tosser, (I've intimated as such
elsewhere in the thread by way of the term 'luddite'), but the above
reasoning is based on the premise that 'The billions of pounds of
money being donated in foreign aid, if reduced, could be used to
reduce the deficit just as much as the money being slashed from our
own internal budgets, be that as a substitute for slashing said
internal budgets or being used alongside it to get the deficit down
even quicker.'

**** all to do with prejudice, everything to do with simple economics.

Oh, and I'm fully aware money is pissed up the wall in other ways by
our beloved administration... something which is also being tackled at
present as well by way of slashed departmental budgets etc, at least
it is if the matters as reported by the press are to be believed.

 

No? Only I'm pretty sure the shit only properly hit the fan for
Greece after their credit rating was lowered by said agencies.

Yes, it may well have just hastened the inevitable, but it still
stands that on the word of these agencies, they met this particular
part of their fate more abruptly than they may have done otherwise.

Agreed.

 

Read and understood.

I'm not questioning the need to clear the deficit... I'm more
questioning the methods being used to do it and the likely impact
it'll have on our society.

And the reason you'd need either in due course given the current
climate, is...? ;-)

 

Keep the logic going. Close every private SME employer in the UK.
I shall raise a glass to your demise from The Sunshine

 

Inequality is coded before birth.

We might seek to limit the range of the effect. Slightly.

 

No, coded

 

Hmm. I'm familiar with the phrase "inequality starts in the womb", but
I'm still inclined to think that nurture can overcome nature. Not
always, and conversely I think that otherwise bright kids can be
disadvantaged for life by bad parenting and poverty. You seem to be
arguing for full on eugenics.


--
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| Pete Fisher at Home: |
| Aprilia Shiver Yamaha WR250Z/Supermoto "Old Gimmer's Hillclimber" |
| Gilera GFR * 2 Moto Morini 2C/375 Morini 350 "Forgotten Error" |
+-------------------------------------------------------------------+

 

Of course he is. C'mon, this is Hog you're talking to.

 

On Thu, 11 Nov 2010 08:30:43 -0800 (PST), JackH

And Auvache as well, I over snipped.

Or we could stop falling for the 'we must reduce the deficit'
smokescreen which is allowing the tories to peddle their policies.

http://www.redpepper.org.uk/Countering-the-cuts-myths

It is to do with prejudice and propaganda and a rancid ideology.The
Conservative endgame is to get every piece of public spending attacked
by those who don't benefit from it.

Widen your information intake.

 

What I mean is inequality, in terms of mental and physical ability, is
genetic.
Now obviously some dumb fucks make it big because of family wealth but in
general, for the majority, it holds true in terms of life course shirly.

 

I'm surprissed that *you* posted that link. It talks about the cuts in
public services Vs national debt.
and
"The government and the press say we are in the grip of a debt crisis caused
by the 'bloated' public sector"

Erm no they don't, they say public sector expenditure has to go down because
the country doesn't have the income to pay for it.

So going back to my detailed post in this thread. Debt and Deficit are
completely different problems although the latter creates the former.

The expenditure reductions are to reduce THE DEFICIT. That is to say
balance the books. Spend no more than we earn as a country.

Red Pepper also peddles the myth that we can just tax our way out of it. How
can anyone be so fucking dense. Raise punitive taxes and you will see a
brief rise in income followed by a collapse in income because those capable
of generating real wealth will FRO and take the employment with them.

But, like I said in the earlier post, you could make a one of grab of the
few hundreds of Brit people and organisations who own great swathes of UK
(and overseas) property and asets for largely historical reasons. Duke of
Westminster and the CofE are at the top of said tree.

 

So Hog, what exactly was childish about what you snipped? Or is it
simply you don't have an answer - let me reinstate just one bit of it

Paul wrote

"People are very conveniently forgetting what caused the recession -
greedy bankers. Who are making sure the Tories are kept on their toes
- oh yes greedy bankers. Perhaps you can tell me why the government
would appear to have waived a £6bn tax liability from Vodaphone.
Those 6 billion quid could help avoid some of the nastiest and most
oppressive changes being proposed by the government. Would you really
rather let Vodaphone shareholders be £6bn richer or would you prefer
the disabled to be supported, schools to be built and proper health
care be funded for the most vulnerable? I know what I'd prefer to see
and don't even try to suggest that Vodaphone would somehow leave the
UK if they were forced to pay up."

What's childish about that? Isn't it the truth that large corporations
and very wealthy individuals use every tax avoidance system at their
disposal - legalised theft from the state. Isn't it also true that
what we are facing now is a party whose ideology wants to introduce a
type of new feudalism, where their cronies benefit and the state is
dismantled?

Shall we get onto links between the tories advisors and vodafone?
http://www.private-eye.co.uk/sections.php?section_link=in_the_back&issue=1275

Just one of the many examples of the rich protecting their own and
**** the rest of us.

This is about ideology, pure and simple. What is happening is wrong. I
have no idea how this is going to be challenged, we have no effective
opposition, labour are moraly bankrupt. I think Pilger has the right
of it.

http://www.newstatesman.com/uk-politics/2010/11/pilger-britain-british

 

And you claim not to troll. Because it is either that or you are
utterly repulsive or stupid (falling for the deserving/undeserving
poor line) or both.

 

Let them, others will simply take their place and fill the vacum they
leave. Probably smaller, more nimble, more inovative businesses that
actually support more jobs for a given turnover.

 

You've both bought into the superficial story IMHO.

The greedy bankers weren't the problem, and nor are the tax evaders,
the problem is the illusion of growth that all of society created
using money they didn't have.

The UK personal debt totals close to £1.5 trillion, call it £56,000
for every household, 60 per cent higher than average pre-tax income.

Did any government cause that, or was it society as a whole, eating
cake when they should have been making jam?

The bankers got rich because society got greedy, and the government
stepped in because the alternatives would all pretty much be
untenable. The worrying thing, as a culture everyone still wants
cake.

And now for an important lesson:
The cake is a lie.

 

What bollocks

 

It's humour. Like telling someone they should be stoned to death.

 

I'm not sure I totally accept your premise even in the case of physical
ability, otherwise there would be no need for most athletes to train at
all. In the field of motor sport there are (or certainly used to be
drivers who were mostly 'made' (Mansell IMO) as well as those that were
just 'born' (Fangio). Perspiration v. inspiration.

In terms of mental ability latest studies do lean towards strong
heritability for 'intelligence', whatever that is, but surely your not
suggesting that having pro-genitors of above average intelligence
guarantees high mental ability?

TBF you do say in general, "for the majority".
So presumably your modest proposals don't extend so far as deeming the
currently lower caste unworthy of breeding and incapable of spawning a
genius under any circumstance?
--
+-------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Pete Fisher at Home: |
| Aprilia Shiver Yamaha WR250Z/Supermoto "Old Gimmer's Hillclimber" |
| Gilera GFR * 2 Moto Morini 2C/375 Morini 350 "Forgotten Error" |
+-------------------------------------------------------------------+

 

Right on the fucking money, I need make no other comments to K's query.

And for the record it isn't tax "evasion". It my/our fucking money. Nobody
else has any right to it. End of.

It isn't just the banking fraternity. The city, the FTSE 100 board members
are a Cabal. They feed the Pensions industry who in turn don't moderate the
salaries. I agree it is totally fucked. I typed in the NG recently one
could exclude major corps from the remuneration panels and appoint only
smaller shareholders. Job done. I've also said that in Quoted companies the
benefits packages available to one should be available to all. That would
put the cramps right on them. Also said that a maximum salary range
(including subbies) is reasonable, say 100:1. Also said that the EU, if they
had the nonce, could impose it across the globe by refusing the right to
sell into the EU unless the rules are upheld everywhere. No global
corporation can afford to lose the EU as a market.

K wants to paint me as something that I'm certainly not.

 

I don't know where you are going. My OP was that inequality in in our
genetic make up. Like height, musculature, potential IQ and so on. Therefor
inequality in society is natural and inevitable.