social policy through grassing

Show me numbers that prove it's bollocks, or STFU.

 

ITYM nouse.

interesting points though, especially the 2 tier benefits.

 

Much of that debt is traceable back to credit cards. Do the credit
companies bear any responsibility for letting it go too far? They must
have known that many of their customers could not meet reasonable
payments.

 

Is it May '97 all over again?

 

Couldn't tell the difference between Blair and the tories then. So
yes, it would seem so.

'What do we want?'
' An effective opposition'

I haven't been this angry in years. The youngsters are really angry
and they don't have my pacifist 'no violence please' scruples. This is
going to get nasty.

 

I dunno.

In 1997 my local MP was Keith Vaz and it was an inner city constituency
in Leicester. It really didn't matter how I voted because the majority
was pretty much set in stone.

Same thing, albeit with Justine Greening (who, for a tory, seems pretty
bloody decent all told) as the MP. And I got to play a (vaguely) active
role in the electoral process and the inner workings of the party to
whom I gave my support.

The similarities? The party elected didn't win because the majority (or
even an electorally-sufficient proportion) wanted them, but because
people were sick of the other guys.

The difference? My party got in. And this time the government is minted.

**** the opposition. They're a waste of space. It'd be a start to have
effective government.

I saw the coalition agreement ratified with my own eyes... could've even
scored a voting seat at the conference if i'd bothered asking but
unanimous is unanimous - in theory you can do more shouting from the
inside than heckling from the benches on the other side of the house.

I'm not party to the inner workings of government, but I accept that the
smaller partner in the coalition is going to get shat on because it's
massively outnumbered.

Am I somewhat ashamed of my party? Hell yeah, and Clegg is our worst
liability by a country mile. I'm sure he's a nice enough bloke but he's
dull as dishwater and comes across as the most unprincipled opportunist
since, well, most of the tory cabinet. Simon Hughes is a fucking star
but forever doomed to play second fiddle due to a devastating
combination of looking like Reggie Perrin running into the back end of a
bus and having an openly declared sexuality that doesn't sit well in the
pages of the Times, let along the Mail or the Sun.

I'm really not convinced about the youngsters. Students protest against
student fees because they're students, regardless of the fact that the
increase in fees will only affect the next generation. A minority of
students are genuinely politically aware, the rest get behind whatever
left-wing bandwagon trundles their way.

Drunken ramblings aside, Ginge has definitely had a point in this thread
and Hog has, uncharacteristically, hit the nail on the head a few times.
Many references have been made to Norway but Maggie squandered that one
20 or 30 years ago so why cry about spilt milk? The defecit has to be
reduced, the debt can come later. To reduce the defecit, something has
to give. And the left has so far failed to come up with anything even
vaguely approaching a practical solution.

The best thing that's happened to Labour in the last ten years was
losing the last election. Once the cuts have, well, cut, and they've
found a replacement for the bubble-eyed gonk they have picking up the
pieces for now, their narrow escape from being that party that had to
tear the state apart will be their salvation. But for the time being,
don't confuse practical necessity for ideology. Shit has to be done and
while it ain't pretty there's no Marshall Plan to bail us out this time.

You know when I said drunken ramblings aside up there? Apparently I
lied.

 

ORLY?

http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2009/feb/09/tax-gap-boots-chemists
http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2010/apr/11/ineos-headquarters-switzerland-tax-bill
http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2009/jul/13/mcdonalds-headquarters-move-geneva

 

Damn! Err...how about a fruit scone then?

^^^^^

I don't think that means what you think it means.

 

They're not taking the employment, simply once again avoiding tax.
It's a paper fucking off only.

The mega rich bought stuff, funded by the banks, which over stretched
themselves and then got bailed out by taxpayers money.

So we paid for their stuff and now they won't pay taxes on the profit
they made out of government (of all parties) toadying to them.

In return the vast majority of an under educated (those 13 years of
Tory underfunding had a purpose) population get to compete for mimimum
wage jobs, for sure as hell the companies aren't going to dent their
profits by paying a living wage.

It's fucked. Sort it out.

 

My mortgage is about £110K - and a 3 adult household with only one real
wage coming in. I'd say that's pretty average.

 

Yeah, but I've also been working for over 18 years to do so.. I got on
the housing ladder aged 19.

In the scale of things I'm just a smug **** that took a chance, got
lucky and beat the system.

Except not everyone in that average will be a home owner, will they? A
quick google seems to indicate that across uk households about 23% of
houses are owned outright, and 45% are mortgaged, the remainder rent.

So, on that basis the average mortgage is going to be more like the
double the average amount of debt I cited in the previous post.

With more time it might be worth looking into those numbers more.

 

True, and I misread the orginal point, but even so, businesses *are*
fucking off due to "punitive" tax rates which effectively means less
income for the govt's coffers.

Who? Me?

 

Coolio.

It was working hours, what can I say.

Let me expand a little. You can't just Up and start a new company of any
consequence and job creating substance. It takes ideas, talent, contact,
advice and *Money*. Lots of it. Yes there are always a few exceptions. But
tens of thousands of examples.

I'm all for SME land (naturally) and that's where the heart of the economy
is. But things generally get started by people who have already made money
from previous ventures, or have family money, or a wealthy business partner.

But this doesn't go far towards employing a million un or semi skilled long
term unemployed men in the North of England and South of Scotland. Therein
lies the *real* problem. Yes we need to rejig social housing to give people
flexibility to move, maybe push them into moving, that's only going to be a
small percentage. UK Inc needs some new heavy industrial projects, located
in the North, with training wrapped up, which primarily Export and support
the Balance of Trade figures. That takes government strategy, banks being
instructed to lend, full union co-operation and business leaders.

Nothing. Nowt. Nada. Not one single thing can replace what I just said and
if it doesn't happen those blokes are going to live on without hope and self
respect and die unemployed. I've seen it all first hand, growing up near
Greenock and donating my time to Inverclyde Enterprise. Skilled and semi
skilled blokes dumped when the shipyards closed. Hadn't worked for 5-10
years already. Age that I am now. They never worked again. Scottish
Enterprise created jobs in Inverclyde. RBS call centre. Misco, Tesco and so
on. Did those hard bitten blokes apply for or win the jobs? of course not,
their kids took them or people moved into the area for them. They needed
hard traditional industrial work, but never got it.

Eventually even the IBM manufacturing plant mainly moved on.

 

Personal debt is another issue altogether aside from the National debt. The
latter around a Trillion pounds with £50 billion annual interest. I expect
*most* people will repay their personal debt before they die.

I wonder what would happen if the Govmint had underwritten all personal
savings and investments up to (say) 100k per head then declared all UK
owner/occupier domestic motgages redeemed )

 

You **** I never twat my thumb

Yes it's nasty medicine. In 2013-18 its going to be utterly horrid. But
thank goodness the coalition have bitten the bullet rather than let it motor
on to 1976 and the IMF.

But don't worry about elections, remember England is True Blue and Yellow.
Without Scotland there will never be another Labour govmint in Westminster.
Shirly to goodness CamClegg have a solution to the East Lothian question up
their sleeves? They have hinted at further "devolution". Give it to the
SNP FFS. Though the Scottish parliament should remember the combined number
of voters who opted Conservative/Liberal:

Labour 41 1,035,528
Liberal Democrat 11 465,471
SNP 6 491,386
Conservative 1 412,855


But look at the map too.
http://img52.imageshack.us/i/mapse.png/

As a country Scotland really needs a voting adjustment based on people and
land mass. Odd but true, because the Central belt and the Highland & Islands
have little or nothing in common.

The map tells all about the English scenario.