Sports Touring? :-)

Oh ? What, centrifugal clutch like a postie bike then ?

JL

 

No, a two speed box with gear change as per regular bike, even with a clutch
lever, and a torque converter. The normal procedure is to pick high or low
depending on your "pose or cruisy" acceleratery desires and leave it in that
gear. The torque converter does the rest. It's a one speed pony, but tricky.

Theo

 

JL wrote:

Right, now, think of six or seven pre-set ratios, all done by
electrickity, for you to play with, if you feel in the mood.

I _think_ that when you use the "virtual" gears, you do get a reasonable
amount of engine braking.

Wouldn't you like to try one at the very least?

I could see that this type of technology could have all sorts of
interesting applications.

Once the electronic controlled CVT is fully sorted and developed it may
have weight and cost advantages over a box full of simple cogs.

If the "virtual" gears are only really programming, well, you have the
possibility of a rider being able to roll his or her own gear ratios, or
cheaply decide that he/she doesn't want seven, and four will be
adequate, etc. even tying variable engine power output mappings to
alternative gearing schema.

Now Clem being dead against, I can see, but you..... you're supposed to
be right into techo shit.

Does the name Jim Hall mean anything to any of you?

regards,
CrazyCam

 

Sold.

 

You do on the Burgman. Five virtual gears by pushbutton.

Check out the Mercedes B series. They have a CV gearbox called
AUTOTRONIC (continuously variable automatic transmission)

Check it out at

http://www2.mercedes-benz.com.au/co...s/b_class/rep_overview/dynamics.0002.htmlTheo

 

I think Honda also had a 400 auto. It, and the 750, was the same
business as the Honda Civic of those days, with a two speed (?) gearbox,
and a torque converter, much like the Guzzi.

The Boss Hog, I think, is just a torque converter and single speed.

I guess the philosophy there is that you have so much grunt, why
complicate matters with gears. ;-)

CVT also worked better in cars... see DAF.

Given the advances in "rubber-band-drive" and the computer chips to
control various stuff that would have been unthinkable 20 years ago, I
really don't see why there shouldn't be successful automatic motorcycles.

regards,
CrazyCam

 

Aye, I thought that, but didn't push my luck too hard, given what I
found was the awesome size of the 650 Burgman.

Didn't any of the DAFs make it to Oz?..... mid 60's?

regards,
CrazyCam

 

The only DAFs that made it here, as far as I know, were called Volvo 360s.
No idea what transmission they had.

Theo

 

Only slightly heavier than the Norge.

Theo

 

Those had a sort of Alfa style gearbox/transaxle arrangement.

When Volvo bought out DAF they really wanted the transmission, but their
lawyers screwed up... they got everything except the transmission.
<snigger>


regards,
CrazyCam

 

Exactly!

regards,
CrazyCam

 

....or print it in English! Swahili would be the likely bet.


Aye! Fair enough, Iain, but at least you're thinking about it
without condemning it out of hand.

regards,
CrazyCam

 

In aus.motorcycles on Mon, 19 Nov 2007 17:18:51 +1100

No, Ducati would revoke your neutral.

Zebee
- who figures it is about time these youngsters got to learn about
the real Italian experience...

 

Yeah but then you wouldn't be able to ride past your letterbox !

JL

 

Ahhh now see when you put it ike ha youmight nab m, but've never
seenthat in real life. I still wn't buy an auto car because it adds
weight and robs HP without giving any benefit. It's going to need to
show a GOOD performance benefit before I'm on board.

Indeed I am - provided there is a clear cut peformance benefit.

Chapparal - relevance ?

JL

 

No, the boss hog is a TH700 2 speed auto as fitted to a number of low
tech 60s cars IIANM

http://www.daytonabosshoss.com/

Mmmm questionable. There's a reason there's not many available yet.
They're probably better suited to a narrow rev band diesel than most
petrol engines

Me neither, as already stated I think they suit the porky cruiser / long
range tourer demographic perfectly. Going back to the start of the
sports vs sports touring discussion though I can't see them adding value
to a sports bike any time soon - added weight and complexity without an
obvious performance benefit

JL

 

Sorry, John, I was wrong. I had seen a couple of custom built big
yankee V8 bikes and they were single gear jobs. Thought Boss Hog took
same line.

Well, back in about 1967 or 68, I had a drive of the DAF 55, a small
engined (Renault 10?) light car with CVT. Fuel economy was very good,
possibly better than a "standard" manual geared car of the era.

Performance was also pretty good, DAF managed a good record in rallies
in the unmodified, off-the-shelf class.

At that time, 40 years ago, the DAF transmission was far superior to the
available "traditional" auto transmissions.

Quite what happened to the idea after the Volvo take-over, I dunno.

Obviously, from the link that Theo posted, the idea isn't dead, has
benefited from the advances in various technologies over the years, and
can't be a total waste of time if MB use it.

While I agree about the big cruiser suiting the torque converter type of
auto, I suspect that the variable pulley/belt drive arrangement, if it
hasn't already, may prove to have a weight advantage against a box full
of cogs. How much added complexity it might bring, I dunno, but if the
complexity is handled by a wee chip <shrug> who cares.

The performance benefit that I see offered by an auto is that it saves
the gear changing process. You can take this as either just saving time
on straight line acceleration, where I guess compared to a regular bike
it is only a poofteenth per change, or you can look at the cornering
situation where you don't really want to have a gear change when you are
deep in a corner and cranked over, and want a smooth consistent
application of power.

regards,
CrazyCam

 

The Honda 750A was brought out in 1976 to appeal to beginners and was
advertised as "The motorcycle for people who don't want to ride a
motorcycle"

 

On Mon, 19 Nov 2007 21:25:18 GMT, "George W. Frost"

Schnipz

Are you serious?

And people wonder why I got out of working with advertising wankers.
Fooking hell.

 

IIANM (and this is only from reading classic car mags), the CVT pretty
much killed DAF as it was quite unreliable, hence Volvo ditched. Could
be wrong on that one though.

True, but it's only come back into vogue because materials science has
improved dramatically (making it more reliable) and because small
capacity engines with a narrow power band have a stronger reason for
existence (fuel economy). The CVT basically holds the RPM pretty much
constant (the only time the DNA isn't running at I think it's 4500RPM
is if you get it going fast enough in "top" ie it can't vary the ratio
any high. Same goes for small cars which you're seeking max economy
from - hence putting it on the A class and etc.

Well it's not really handled by the chip, the CVT is still mechanical
all the selectable ratio thing does is make the CVT act more like the
boxes we're used to - it's reducing the functionality really in a way.

But you already have that at a very light weight with a conventional
gearbox. Contrary to the Two Wheels editorial, I think bikers are
conservative about changes that don't add value. I can't see corner
speed being improved by it - maybe I'm lacking in vision but I just
can't see how it's going to make you faster around a track. Hence it
makes sense for cruisers but not sports to me. Am I just not getting
your point ?

A CVT auto would be perfect on a big V twin that redlines at 4000rpm.
You keep the motor constantly at the torque peak whether you're doing
2km/hr or 130k. Easy, pleasant. Cruisy.

JL