The 5 most important people

I don't know if I entirely agree - a large portion of the book does talk
about the experience of motorcycling and the 'experience' of maintaining it
(as distinct to the actual act of maintaining it).

But a large portion talks about Aristotlean philosophy and a substantial
other portion talks about being in a nuthouse peeing yourself. And the
undercurrent of Zen is there as well, although I missed it the first few
times.

I love it, and re-read it every couple of years, it's a daunting book and
quite out of alignment with the hippie generation that so oddly embraced it.
But I can see why so many dislike it.

Manning

 

Thereyagomate, fixed!

John

 

Well, since you admit that it is arguable..... the C50/70/90 and various
off-shoots, are far more significant, on a world view, than the CB750.

The CB750 may have established the "reputation" of Honda in the US, UK,
and maybe Oz, but the wee single cylinder 4-stroke Hondas gave mobility
to the entire world....and continue to do so.

regards,
CrazyCam

 

Manning wrote:

Barry was a great bloke. No argument.

But.......(see subject!)

Now you are really trolling. :-(

regards,
CrazyCam

 

I was not aware that expressing an opinion you disagree with constitutes
'trolling'. As I said, my opinion, and I'm sticking to it. Many disagree,
and that's acknowledged and respected.

I also think Barry was important from a public awareness point of view, and
I would suggest that a lot of people took up riding and became
aware/passionate about motorcycling because of him. His impact on the sport
and the pursuit is far more substantial than his racing success.

Manning

 

A highly valid argument - the whole thing is just opinion anyway.

I think the arguments for the CB750 go beyond the 'reputation' angle, the
combination of quality, mass production and cost was unprecedented, and it
is not unfair to say that every performance road bike on the market carries
its lineage in some form.

Cheers Manning

 

Indeed. I did actually think you _were_ trolling with that.....
The guy wrote a seriously weird book, with occasional references to
motorcycles. I'd have hardly thought it would put him in the same
league as, for example, Phil Irvine or Pietro Taruffi.

But, then again, it would be a boring old world if we all thought the
same.

regards,
CrazyCam

 

I've never thought of it as weird - challenging yes. It is the reason that I
personally started to ride a motorcycle, so obviously *I* regard it as
important. The entire first half of the book talks about little else but
motorcycles, so there are more than occasional references. But it is
ultimately a book about philosophy, and perhaps many riders feel cheated in
some way by that. I regard it as important because it reached and touched an
audience well outside the motorcycling world.

There's an excellent discussion of the book and the reaction to it by many
readers here:
http://www.honda305.com/zen/

On the weirdness scale it doesn't come close (IMHO) to Easy Rider, with it's
profound explanation of how the Venutians are controlling our lives and the
church scene.

Cheers Manning

 

Hi Manning
whilst I agree and disagree with you so far on your selection a couple
of points to look at, given that this is based on your collection of
info. Look at Hondas influence and help in his early start at racing.
You will find some interesting facts about the Italians and thier part
in Hondas developement.
Who the best of all the riders to choose from I think would be when you
were born.. My influence came from Ago. Phil Read, Hailwood and the
Rickman brothers and that was before Barry was even known.
Whos the New Zealander who pioneered the modern GP bikes??

Still I think your original topic is People so the machines what should
be included if they are the Postie or CT90 most popular and it would be
the one machine which you will find all over the world.

Just my 2 cents worth or treefiddy and kick in the nuts.

Mark.

 

Mark - thanks for your opinions

Firstly, if we all agreed then there'd be no point for a NG. Secondly, any
set of opinions is going to be coloured by one's background knowledge, and
I'm the first to admit that I don't even know a fraction of everything. I've
never even heard of the Rickman Brothers, and if you judge them that
significant I'll regard that as a deficiency and go and research them.

My assessment of the CB750 as one of the most important bikes of all time is
obviously coloured by my preference to 'prestige' bikes. In reality the Cub
50/70/90 and it's descendants is probably far more significant in terms of
its impact on the world, as any trip to Jakarta, Shanghai, Mumbai, Sao Paulo
or Nairobi will attest.

I'm well aware of the influence of the Italians on Soichiro Honda,
particularly the Bonselli family that owned the Mondial marque at the time.
But I think Honda took what he learned from them and took it to somewhere
unique and unprecendented. Honda made annual trips to Europe every year from
1954 to 1958, purely for research purposes. Only in 1959 did he go for the
purpose of racing (and the resultsthat year could only be termed as 'mildly
successful').

As far as Barry goes, I certainly don't think Barry is a terribly
significant rider from a racer's point of view, and neither his results nor
analysis of his technique would suggest that he was. Within my own era I
would think that Kenny Roberts was a technically far more impressive rider.
(Sadly I was too young for the era of Ago). However I took a populist
position for all of my suggestions, and Barry is easily the most famous
rider of all time, and that has had a tremendous impact on the pursuit. A
lot of people ride today because of Barry.

It is also fair to say that moreso than any other, Barry campaigned heavily
for rider and track safety and his political brawls with the FIM are well
documented. While tragedies will always be a factor in MC racing, the
carnage of the early days is gone and Barry played a major role in that.
Plus, Barry also used his influence to get better sponsorship, pay and TV
coverage for MC racing (probably motivated by his own desires, but it rubbed
off on the sport as a whole.)

Anyway - thanks for your comments, I'm off to find out who these Rickman
Brothers were, as well as this Kiwi who pioneered modern GP bikes (I"ve got
no idea who you mean...)

Cheers Manning

 

"Manning" wrote

There was this Hailwood chap, Mike I think.

Theo

 

Maybe, but this was ready first and held back to become the Z1
http://au.msnusers.com/JohnsFiles/shoebox.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=33

 

Ready first? The Z1 was first released in 1972, four years after the CB750.

"...Kawasaki ... was shocked when Honda unveiled its 750cc four at the 1968
Tokyo show. Kawasaki's chief designer, Ben Inamura went back to the drawing
board and came up with what has since been called the first real superbike,
the 903cc Z1."

[The New Illustrated Encyclopedia of Motorcycles, 2002, p 306]

It's certainly true that when the Z1 appeared it leapt ahead of all others
on the market, inclusing anything Honda had at the time.

Manning

 

Kawasaki reputedly did have a superbike in the wings when they got gazumped by the CB750 (same as later when
they got gazumped by the XT500) but I'm sure it bore little resemblance to the Z1 they released years later.
(It was probably a big-bore W650 or somesuch)

 

gazumped by the CB750 (same as later when

the Z1 they released years later.

Actually clem it was said to be a 750cc DOHC 4 cylinder which was the same
basic motor as the Z900 that was eventually released. One theory about the
weak frame on the 900cc relates to the 750cc design criteria


Geoff and Jodie

 

And it took them FOUR YEARS to bore it out to 900 and release it otherwise unchanged?!!? [sound of mind
boggling!]
They deserve to be at the back of the MotoGP grid!

 

CB750.


Yeah, Im pretty sure that the bike pictured was due for release when Honda
released the CB750. Ive got the full story somewhere, Ill see if I can dig
it up.
Anyway, the Z1was my 3rd bike after a DS7 250 Yammy, and a CB5004 and I have
fond memories of pulling the girls because of it.
One girl I fondly remember said she'd go home on the biggest bike and guess
who had just picked up the Z1.
I didnt take her straight home.

 

Damn right...


Postman Pat
CB750
CT110

 

I think you mean "the CB750 of 1998"....

Postman Pat
1998 CB750

 

It's spelled "Heslewood",and Mike's my brother...


Postman Pat