The amazing denial of conspiracy kooks....

You should do some basic research before you post your
opinions.

http://911research.wtc7.net/talks/towers/index.html

The towers went from standing to a pile of rubble
in about 15 seconds. They did that because their massive
steel frames shattered, melted, and disintegrated into
pieces. Minor fires near the tops of the towers could not
possibly have caused the massive undamaged steel frames
below to fall through themselves in perfect symmetry and
free fall speed. That's been proved with physics.

Here's what happens to steel framed buildings exposed
to raging infernos for hours on end.

http://davesweb.cnchost.com/nwsltr69c.html

Perhaps you should learn more about the extreme (2000%) reserve
strength designed into the steel frames of the towers. How was the
2000% reserve strength of the undamaged steel frame exceeded by only
the force of gravity, in your opinion? And how was it exceeded to such
an extreme degree that the undamaged steel frame with a 2000% reserve
strength capacity offered no measurable resistance with only the force
of gravity working against it?

From:
http://www.911truth.org/article.php?story=20060327100957690

"The Twin Towers and Why They Fell
It would help to begin with an accurate description of the WTC towers
in terms of quality of design and construction. In July of 1971, the
American Society of Civil Engineers (ASCE) presented a national award
judging the buildings to be "the engineering project that demonstrates
the greatest engineering skills and represents the greatest
contribution to engineering progress and mankind."3 Others noted that
"the World Trade Center towers would have an inherent capacity to
resist unforeseen calamities." This capacity stemmed from the use of
special high-strength steels. In particular, the perimeter columns
were designed with tremendous reserve strength whereby "live loads on
these columns can be increased more than 2,000% before failure occurs.

More on the incredible strength of the towers can be found here:

http://911research.wtc7.net/wtc/analysis/design.html

"There is evidence that the Twin Towers were designed with an even
greater measure of reserve strength than typical large buildings.
According to the calculations of engineers who worked on the Towers'
design, all the columns on one side of a Tower could be cut, as well
as the two corners and some of the columns on each adjacent side, and
the building would still be strong enough to withstand a
100-mile-per-hour wind. 3"

The massive steel frames of the towers were far too strong to
collapse only under their own weight. That's been proved with
physics, and that's why no other steel framed buildings have ever
collapsed that way unless they were demolished. See Gordon Ross'
excellent paper on momentum transfer on this page:

http://worldtradecentertruth.com/

As common sense would dictate, even if all the perimeter and
core columns near the top of the tower were somehow destroyed
simultaneously so that the top 20 stories or so dropped onto the
remaining undamaged frame, after some bending and compression,
the collapse would have stopped, or the upper block would have
fallen off to the side. Gordon Ross proves that with physics.

To believe that the towers could fall through themselves at virtual
free fall speed and in perfect symmetry is comical nonsense. What you
are saying, is that falling directly =through= the massive undamaged
steel frames, including the 47 interconnected central core columns:

http://911research.wtc7.net/wtc/arch/core.html

provided little more resistance than air. This is proved by the
fact that debris falling outside the towers hit the ground about the
same time as the debris falling through the towers. Making your
theory even more impossible, is the fact that the steel at the top
of the towers was ten times lighter and thinner than the undamaged
steel in the lower section.
Your magic fire conspiracy theory is an utterly idiotic and
comical fantasy - and it violates the laws of physics.

Look at the massive core column cross section in the
bottom photo.

http://911research.wtc7.net/wtc/arch/core.html

Your magic fire theory says that crushing 47 of those bad boys,
all interconnected with even more steel, =and= destroying all the
perimeter columns, =and= "pancaking" all the floors, produced
about the same kinetic friction as falling though air. That's some
crazy, crazy, shit. It's amazing what some people can programmed
to believe.


Observe the rotating and disintegrating block on the South
Tower.

http://911research.wtc7.net/wtc/evidence/photos/wtc2exp4.html

As the top section of that tower is rotating, the high strength, fire
resistant perimeter columns on one side of the building are being
compressed, and on the opposite side, they're being pulled apart. Why
do you think the steel perimeter frame with no weight above it is
exploding and collapsing at the same rate as the compressed side?
Seems more than a little odd, doesn't it? Here's some information
on the perimeter columns.

http://911research.wtc7.net/wtc/arch/perimeter.html

 

Henry says...

My god , Henry. I'll bet you're the life and soul of the party where you
come from, eh?

 

If you were a little less dim Henry, I'd argue with you
instead of laughing at you. Having presented you with
simple math and common sense already, I feel no obligation
to repeat myself. You are a net loon, and an unusually
tiresome one at that.

 

WTC 7 report due out in 2007.

WTF is the "pact zone"?

"failure to address", if true, doesn't mean that that there is a
missing piece that is solved by explosives or thermite.

The "Truth Movement" doesn't debunk it, they ignore it.

 

Right. more or less.


They did that because their massive

Yes, they fell straight down, at speeds close to free-fall. They
obeyed the laws of physics and there was no explosives or thermite
needed for the collapse to happen for WTC1/2/7

There is nobody working in a relevant area of expertise in civil
engineering that thinks that explosives are necessary to explain the
collapse.

 

Not a failure mode which was foreseen or planned for

 

The 2001 attacks were predicted.

Were you in a position of power,
would you have done anything
about predictions of attacks?

Whom do you believe benefitted
most from the crimes of 9/11?

 

Do you believe that the events of 9/11/2001 involved crimes?

 

"involved crimes" is kind of broad. The Cop in involved crime
to the extent that he catches crooks.

DId Bush fly one of the airplanes ? No.

 

So, in Dykeword, steel has about the same physical properties
as air, and falling through 47 massive interconnected steel
columns with four inch thick walls is expected to produce about
the same kinetic friction as falling through air, eh? It seems
that basics physics and mechanics are well beyond your
comprehension. Look at the massive core column cross section in
the bottom photo.

http://911research.wtc7.net/wtc/arch/core.html

Your magic fire theory says that crushing 47 of those bad boys,
all interconnected with even more steel, =and= destroying all the
perimeter columns, =and= "pancaking" all the floors, produced
about the same kinetic friction as falling though air. That's some
crazy, crazy, shit. It's amazing what some people can programmed
to believe.

 

It seems they're having a little trouble "explaining"
that an obvious controlled demolition was somehow caused
by a few small random fires. The rest of the NIST report,
was a farce and joke, as I said. Did you notice the numerous
omissions, distortions, and wild, unsupported assumptions?
That's not science, it's crap.

Typo - impact zone. That's where the planes hit. The
massive steel frames were undamaged below the impact
zones, which is yet another reason why they could not have
collapsed under their own weight at any speed, let alone
free fall speed and perfect symmetry. This has been proved
with physics. The central core alone could easily support
several times the weight of the tower.
See Gordon Ross' excellent paper on momentum transfer on
this page:

http://worldtradecentertruth.com/

Ignores what, exactly?

 

Where did I say that "steel has about the same physical properties as
air"? Stop Making Shit Up.

It escapes me as to how the use of cutting charges or explosives in
any way, would speed the fall. You'd have to attach a Saturn rocket,
thrust pointed down, to the roof of a tower and have it provide
millions of pounds of thrust for several seconds to make a difference.

There is no evidence of large interior explosions. It would show up in
the Seismic data, at least.

There is no evidence of cutting charges on the exterior columns. The
"squibs", frequently pointed to, are only a few floors below the
collision and consistant with debris being blown out of windows by air
pressure.

Nobody with expetise in building design or demolition claims that
explosives or thermite are needed to explain the collapse of the WTC
towers. Thousands of people with expertise agree with the standard
explaination and nobody dissents in any major way.

 

Oh yeah. This is certainly a far more stimulating topic
than the latest sitcom, celebrity divorce, or sports
"hero". Another bonus is that helps separate the gullible
sheep from clear thinking folks. <g>


--

http://911research.wtc7.net/

"The new America, born in sin and arrogance, delusional
in Manifest Destiny, bred in overabundant gluttony,
consumerist and materialist, fathered by George W. Bush,
Dick Cheney and the Cabal of Criminality, a country flocked
by sheeple, ignorant and conditioned, indifferent to a world
growing up around it, living delusions of empire and of
omnipotence, building hatred against it and its policies
throughout the planet, slowly dumbing down its citizens,
losing its edge in the sciences and arts, producing a nation
of acquiescent automatons brainwashed to never question
authority and always faithfully follow the crimes of governance."
- Manuel Valenzuela

 

"On the face, it seems tenuous that the spikes were "impact
times". How does an aircraft impacting the WTC near the 90th floor
result in sufficient energy transference that travels all the way
down to the earth, even through the massive multi-level, 6-story
sub-basement structure, and be picked up by LDEO as a seismic
spike? Energy from the crash should have mostly been absorbed by
the building's immense structure and mass.

Any technical paper that had that paragraph and had no calculations or
citations to support it's claim would be given an "F". That paper was
not peer reviewed by anyone that has expertise in any of the fields of
science or engineering necessary.


Ignoring the entire body of work by the NIST and the related
professional engineering associations except to cherrypick parts that
admit, as professionals do, that there are parts that they can't
explain. NIST clearly states that the unknowns do not call for
explosions or thermite to fill in the gaps of understanding.

 

Wow.

 

Warning Warning Warning

Some of the papers on that web site, including Ross' "excellent" paper
have quotes of witnesses that are edited. Important text has been
replaced with ellipses or long quotes have been excerpted and
reassembled to change the meaning. They also don't provide links to
original material so the reader can check the quotes and see the
context. The "truth Movement" people cite each others work without
any quote checking so it's impossible to tell where Ross got this one.

The following web page has many examples of wordsmithing fraud in test
that is found in the "Truth Movement" papsers and has links to the
full text for you.

http://www.debunking911.com/quotes.htm

Never accept a quote containing "..." unless there is a link to the
original source.

The "Truth Movement" is devoid of intellectual honesty an any academic
professionalism.

 

It's not ignored. It's thoroughly debunked and exposed as
a farce. But given the fact that you can't even comprehend
how destroying the steel frame of a skyscraper with demolition
charges would increase the speed at which it falls, I can
certainly see why you'd be unable to understand the debunking
of NIST's comical nonsense...

http://911research.wtc7.net/essays/nist/index.html

 

Can you be more specific? Also, tell us what makes you
think that controlled demoliton can't increase the collapse
time of a steel framed building. That's really weird.

 

Come on hanky boy, he has you in a corner and all you can come up with
is the above?

He has a point, you 911 bowel movements guys do like to cut and paste
to suit your agenda. You do it to people's posts all the time. Not like
you would be above doing it to the truth.

Kirb

 

Obviously this should be made easier for you:

Do you believe that the events of 9/11/2001 involved
crimes which should be investigated?