Thew Sinking of the Laconia

I wonder if they will ever show this in leftpondia?

--
Rob_P
UKRM(at)indqualtec.co.uk
uppercase(d) BBIWYMC#1 BOG#11? MRO#31 IBCDBBB#1(kotl)
FJ1200, CCM130 Benelli Cabriolet (gone)
Looks like Rab C Nesbit.

 

I read about that umm... **** knows how many years ago. Istr der U-boot
Kapitan towed them for a good couple of days until he had to leave them,
which wasn't really mentioned in the programme. Several hundred miles,
iirc.

 

I didn't think it was a massive secret - it formed a big chunk of
evidence at Doenitz's Nuremburg trial. (IIRC).

 

sweller wibbled forthrightly:

Quite right. Because prior to the incident, survivors were picked up.
Doenitz issued the order to stop this practice (submarines were already
exempt, IIRC). I don't know whether Doenitz ever used the fact that the
subs were bombed, led him to issue the Laconia Order.

 

It was mentioned in the prog, along with the (sound) reason for him doing
so.

 

Presumably you are talking about Hunnish submarine crews because the story
my father tells, and he was on coastal sub hunting duties during the early
part of the war, suggest that the realities of war are not exactly as
internationally recognised treaties might expect them to be.

 

Not the time and distance, as far as I recall.

 

steve auvache wibbled forthrightly:

I'm not sure about UK subs, but German subs were certainly ordered to
not pick up survivors.

 

Yes, the "Laconia Order" - see if you can work it why it was so named.

 

They were, but not initially. I think there was a code of conduct and
sense of simple good seamanship, but ultimately submarines are stealth
ships that have little reserve capacity for supporting anyone outside
their own crew; towing small boats would be possible in good weather
but would severely compromise the submarine's own safety and
operational effectiveness. Compare that to, say, the captured crews
who were carried and generally well cared for on the Admiral Graf
Spee.

It was a harsh decision but Doenitz was just being a realist.

 

If you want an amazing read, look up the disguised German commerce
raider, Atlantis.

I can't remember the book but a swift Google ought to turn it up.

 

Quite. I thought that part of Doenitz's reasoning was because women and children
were being killed in raids over Germany.

 

640 miles was what yon Kapitan said. Or something very close to. At around
the same time it was mentioned that the survivors would die and he said "I
know", but he wasn't in a position to do anything by then.

 

.... which seems to be a bit of a spin on the actual, unadorned, train of
events, according to the wikipedia entry,
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laconia_incident#Key_facts

Still: passage of time, re-re-re-writing of the history of a minor
incident, above all: TV producers -- whatcha gonna do?

The programme after the drama (30-minutes interviews with the victims)
was riveting, having watched the the drama (and also read the Wikipedia
article). It showed very clearly the realities of wartime, and the
necessary choices people have to make.

 

And didnt he win points by refusing to turn-in jews serving in the
navy?

 

Owen wibbled forthrightly:

There was one case where he supported one of his Admirals (can't
remember the name) as said-Admiral was of Jewish descent, but
ideologically, Dönitz was antisemitic and made that clear many times.

 

Sensible, they were all going to drown in horrific circumstances anyway.

 

Ah, confusion is cleared up.
I didn't see the dramatisation, I watched the survivors' account.

 

Ah right. No worries either way though.