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Discussion in 'UK Motorcycles' started by Dan L, Apr 3, 2010.

  1. Dan L

    Dan L Guest

    Dan L, Apr 3, 2010
    #1
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  2. Dan L

    Catman Guest

    Level 6 rattle throw

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    116 Giulietta 3.0l Sprint 1.7 GTV TS GT 3.2 V6
    Triumph Sprint ST 1050: It's blue, see.
    www.cuore-sportivo.co.uk
     
    Catman, Apr 3, 2010
    #2
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  3. Dan L

    Eiron Guest

    "This was one of the most disgraceful biased performances of an interviewer
    and of the BBC itself in the history of the BBC and its treatment of
    trade unions."

    I don't think it even comes close.
     
    Eiron, Apr 3, 2010
    #3
  4. Dan L

    Andy Bonwick Guest

    I'm a bit confused by the whole idea that the high court can ban
    strike action. If the blokes want to strike then it's not hard to work
    out that all you have to do is not go to work. I've always believed
    that I have the right to withdraw my labour any day I choose to (1)
    and it just seems a bit strange that an employer can take someone to
    court to force them to turn up for work.

    I miss those happy days when we'd all walk out if we were pissed off
    with our employers. I don't miss picket lines and I think 'secondary'
    pickets lines should be illegal but being banned from taking strike
    action is taking the piss.

    (1) Ok, they can take disciplinary action against me (2) for taking
    unauthorised leave but they can't throw me in jail for 12 months.

    (2) I appreciate it's a different matter when it's a national strike
    but does anyone really believe that an employer would sack 50% of
    their staff for taking 'illegal' strike action?
     
    Andy Bonwick, Apr 3, 2010
    #4
  5. Dan L

    sweller Guest

    It certainly shows they don't understand the legislation relating to IA
    ballots.

    ....and the last national rail strike was 1995, not 1994 as the BBC state
    (that was the last national signallers strike).
     
    sweller, Apr 3, 2010
    #5
  6. Dan L

    Dan L Guest

    Quite; Humphrys went in with an obviously closed mind, and Bob Crowe
    was less than articulate in countering the argument in a coherent
    manner.

    Car crash radio at it worst imho.
     
    Dan L, Apr 3, 2010
    #6
  7. Dan L

    sweller Guest

    Industrial action is unlawful if it has not been authorised by an
    independent ballot that meets a (large) number of criteria.

    The definition of industrial action is "a collective move away from
    normal working".

    So if it is normal to come to work(!), work overtime, follow certain
    practices etc and you stop doing it on a collective basis that
    constitutes industrial action - whether it's co-ordinated or not.

    The employer can dismiss if they wish (you are only protected taking
    lawful action) but more effectively they can seek damages from the union
    - whether or not they're behind the action.

    If you've just shut down the railways that's a lot of damages at ?90-?180
    per minute. Individuals can seek damages too.

    This is why we (union's) repudiate unofficial action pronto and get
    accused by the ultras as "selling out the workers".

    The law is not fair and doesn't promote oneness and transparency, it is
    just there to frustrate action - but no surprise there.
     
    sweller, Apr 3, 2010
    #7
  8. Dan L

    Catman Guest

    I assume you mean the BBC? Good to have your input.
    Figures.




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    Catman MIB#14 SKoGA#6 TEAR#4 BOTAFOF#38 Apostle#21 COSOC#3
    Tyger, Tyger Burning Bright (Remove rust to reply)
    116 Giulietta 3.0l Sprint 1.7 GTV TS GT 3.2 V6
    Triumph Sprint ST 1050: It's blue, see.
    www.cuore-sportivo.co.uk
     
    Catman, Apr 3, 2010
    #8
  9. Dan L

    Tim Guest

    Bob Crowe managed to shoot himself in the foot. If he bothered to stop
    repeating his mantra endlessly he may have got some sympathy, but looked
    like a knob instead.
     
    Tim, Apr 3, 2010
    #9
  10. Dan L

    sweller Guest

    Why would BC want any sympathy from you, or anyone else for that matter?

    It's an honest question - all he needs is the continued support of his
    members. Strike in this circumstance is an economic weapon against
    Network Rail, what /you/ think of the RMT makes no difference to that
    impact.
     
    sweller, Apr 3, 2010
    #10
  11. Dan L

    sweller Guest

    Yes, I'm surprised as they're normally quite good.
     
    sweller, Apr 3, 2010
    #11
  12. Dan L

    Catman Guest

    Can you elucidate? I've not been following this too closely due to a
    flurry of job applications, but, as I say, it's always interesting to
    see a deeper point of view.

    From what I can see (or have heard) it seems reasonably clear that the
    ballot was flawed, potentially deliberately (though probably not hugely
    likely) or due to some outstanding errors in record keeping.

    True?

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    Catman MIB#14 SKoGA#6 TEAR#4 BOTAFOF#38 Apostle#21 COSOC#3
    Tyger, Tyger Burning Bright (Remove rust to reply)
    116 Giulietta 3.0l Sprint 1.7 GTV TS GT 3.2 V6
    Triumph Sprint ST 1050: It's blue, see.
    www.cuore-sportivo.co.uk
     
    Catman, Apr 3, 2010
    #12
  13. Dan L

    Catman Guest

    Fair call. He certainly doesn't need sympathy or understanding, but
    surely if public opinion turns against *him* the members are more likely
    to withdraw their support?

    --
    Catman MIB#14 SKoGA#6 TEAR#4 BOTAFOF#38 Apostle#21 COSOC#3
    Tyger, Tyger Burning Bright (Remove rust to reply)
    116 Giulietta 3.0l Sprint 1.7 GTV TS GT 3.2 V6
    Triumph Sprint ST 1050: It's blue, see.
    www.cuore-sportivo.co.uk
     
    Catman, Apr 3, 2010
    #13
  14. Dan L

    Tim Guest

    Well I'd imagine any number from: individual members pressurised by
    their nearest and dearest right through to that they are understood to
    be bankrolling the current gov'mint and may just contribute to another
    party winning the next election. Further if he makes his union, and by
    association all unions, look a bunch of arses then membership numbers
    may fall.
    I rather think that the strike is an action against you and I because
    that's where NR gets its money from. You see if the track is unavailable
    then the TOCs (train operating companies) can seek compensation from NR.
    NR in turn will ask for an increase in the rail access fee to the TOCs
    next time it's negotiated and/or ask the gov'mint for another subsidy.
     
    Tim, Apr 3, 2010
    #14
  15. Dan L

    Beav Guest

    According to the article,

    "The BBC said Humphrys had "put a pertinent question to Mr Crow"

    But when did..

    "The Radio 4 host said the High Court's decision to grant an injunction
    halting a four-day national rail strike "raises suspicions the ballot was
    rigged".

    become a question?

    From where I'm sitting it was a statement or an opinion, not a question.


    --
    Beav

    VN 750
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    Beav, Apr 3, 2010
    #15
  16. Dan L

    Beav Guest

    It makes me wonder why the Beeb did the interview in the first place, if the
    opinion of the great unwashed (no offence Tim) isn't important.


    --
    Beav

    VN 750
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    OMF# 19
     
    Beav, Apr 3, 2010
    #16
  17. Grimly Curmudgeon, Apr 3, 2010
    #17
  18. Dan L

    Beav Guest

    I agree wholeheartedly that anyone should be "allowed" to strike if they
    feel the need, apart from the Emergency Services who (I'm lead to believe)
    have this right waived in their contract.

    As for sacking 50% of the workforce, President Reagan sacked more than half
    the air traffic controllers and got away with it.


    --
    Beav

    VN 750
    Zed 1000
    OMF# 19
     
    Beav, Apr 3, 2010
    #18
  19. Dan L

    Colin Irvine Guest

    I think the latter is far more likely. My own experience of union
    record-keeping is poor. Which, given their limited funds, is
    understandable.
     
    Colin Irvine, Apr 3, 2010
    #19
  20. Dan L

    Andy Bonwick Guest

    I'd have thought they were more likely to close ranks and give public
    opinion a big **** off.

    I'm waiting for squint to tell him to stop being a naughty boy because
    not everybody using trains as a means of transport is a tory voter.
     
    Andy Bonwick, Apr 3, 2010
    #20
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