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In that case, the mould was broken by Chuck Berry or by the late-40s,
early-50s Chicago blues bands (Muddy Waters et al.) who were the
original rock and roll bands, or by the Sun Records singer-songwriters
(Carl Perkins, Johnny Cash, Roy Orbison).

 

The point (that you snipped) was that hardly any mainstream pop was
self-written up until the Beatles. After then, a hell of a lot of it
was.

In the era of the artists you mention, kids who wanted to emulate them
might buy a guitar and learn to sing the songs they'd heard - only
once the Beatles made it big did kids everywhere think it was much
cooler to write their own stuff.

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Johnny Cash, Roy Orbison and Carl Perkins (and Hank Williams) were not
black.

 

Yes. I don't think that the bulk of acts now write most of their own
material, although I don't have the data to check.

 

I'd say The Beatles are most overrated band of all time and they did cast
a long shadow, unfortunately.

 

I get them all confused.

I meant JayKay. Both times.

 

<fx: anticipates death threat heading your way from Ace's direction>

I don't agree that they were overrated, but I do think most of their
output was crap.

 

Oooh, a POV where it's not just me.

That makes a nice change!

 

I rarely do!

I have Sgt Pepper but that was only because I believed the hype when it
was first released on CD. I probably haven't listened to it since just
after I bought it.

 

<shrugs>

You're entitled to your opinion...

even if it is wrong.

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heh.

You have to remember, by the time I was of an age to appreciated music
(say, 1977) the Beatles were a spent force. Looking at it
retrospectively, whatever was "special" about them was not apparent to
me, particularly in comparison with what had happened since.

Of course, if one were to study it properly, maybe their brilliance
would be revealed, but most of there songs just struck me as (for
early stuff) twee and silly and (for later stuff) deliberately odd and
silly.

I can't think of a single Beatles song that I couldn't bear to never
hear again.

The Stones on the other hand...

 

oh, I'm not saying they didn't have a huge influence. Moving forward
25 years or so, "Soul II Soul" had a "huge influence" on the popular
music of the late 80s/early 90s. But I think they're shit, and I'm
99.9% sure you'd agree (if you've even heard of them).

I wasn't meaning to get into the "significance" argument. I'd signed
up for the "intrinsic worth" argument.

I can't even think what "Day in the Life" sounds like, and my
experience of "I Am the Walrus" has been permanently sullied by Oasis.

Exactly. The Stones were just "better" than the Beatles. In addition
to "Sympathy for the Devil", I could add loads more "must not lose"
Stones songs.

Of course, this is me, so I can't let a music thread go by without a
bit of pretentiousness: "Of course, forgetting the Beatles and the
Stones, the best band of the '60s was undoubtably the MC5".

 

Quite. Run DMC and NWA[1] came to mind when I was thinking similar.

[1] Who got the reference in Hot Fuzz?

 

No, the best band of the sixties was the Shangri-Las.

 

Hmmm. The whole of the Double-White Album (apart from "Revolution 9").
And Abbey Road. Most of Sgt Pepper...

Actually, now I think about it, probably about 50% of their stuff
falls into that category for me. I must sit down and listen to it all
again...

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ah - I am at that certain age where I have quite fond memories of
early Run DMC and Beastie Boys output, though latterly of course it
all turned to shit. Actually, the early stuff was shit too, really.

did anyone not?

 

Probably me as I have no idea what you're on about.

 

One or two, I imagine.

 

"Ear of the beholder" and all that. There are whole genres of music
that I think are crap, but that doesn't stop some misguided people
thinking it has some intrinsic value.

You've already ruled yourself out of the "knowing anything about 60s
music" team, so you'll have to say who you're quoting and let them
argue the case themselves.

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..'_/_|_\_'. Ace (b.rogers at ifrance.com)
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#woke up, got out of bed, dragged a comb across my head...

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..'_/_|_\_'. Ace (b.rogers at ifrance.com)
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