Unaugural 8.0 - Roll Call

Absolutely, but there is a sort of dividing line from folk with dirt
bikes, or adventure bikes, and knowledge and experience of riding on
loose surfaces, to normal mortals who ride road motorbikes, and,
occasionally get faced with gnarly dirt roads.

In no sense was I saying that your comment was wrong, merely that it was
a bit inappropriate for the circumstances which started out the
digression of the thread.

If someone is riding a road bike, on very sloppy dirt, and they are
going suitably slowly in the first place, then gassing the thing up is a
meaningful bit of advice.

If, however, they are already going faster than they know how to handle,
gassing the bugger up more probably won't actually help.

It's a funny thing, but, trying to instruct folk, you tend to go through
cycles of ...for your level of experience, do this..... then
later.....for your level of experience, do that.....

If someone had flagged me down just before the start of the gravel road
in the original discussion and given me a good parking place for my BMW,
and an F650GS, to ride the rest of the way, I'd have had a ball!

But, no one was likely to do this, so the only modification I made to my
bike was to set the seat height lower..... it doesn't turn an R850R into
a dirt bike, but, at least I can reach the ground more easily.

regards,
CrazyCam

 

No, I have even gone to Adelaide specifically to buy Southwark Stout!

(which reminds me, I need some more, must plan another trip!)

regards,
CrazyCam

 

I think you have it right Gerry, for most, slowing down and taking it
easy is probably the best bet...

mh
(wannbe Dakar pilot on Dakar machinery...yes, it will end in tears)

 

I feel that I'm likely to have ridden/driven the road from Tarago to
Funkytown more times than anyone else here, and in all possible conditions.

I'll just say this:

I never travel at more than 60km/h on the dirt portion of that road,
whether day or night, motorcycle or car or truck. If you feel that you
can travel safely along it at faster speeds, knock your socks off. I've
encountered too many obstacles of various kinds[1] there to try.

I do feel that encouraging others of unknown skill levels[2] towards
"faster=better" for dirt roads is not such a great idea.


BTH
[1] Including (but not limited to) sheep, wombats, kangaroos, cattle,
wallabies, rabbits, farmers paying more attention to the paddocks than the
road, that fucking school bus, drifts of gravel that weren't there last
week, tree limbs, and my personal favourite: people cutting blind corners.
[2] Although generally if they are having trouble with dirt road riding
and you're offering advice one can assume that to be "less than you".

 

So, what did you think of my Dark Ale?


BTH

 

True. Bugger. Next year I'll take the bus to Funkytown ;-)

betty

 

Dunno.

I never got round to it, because the ginger beer was so bloody good!

regards,
CrazyCam

 

I have personally employed the "flapping your feet around" riding style
once, over the 2 days that it took me to ride the Plenty Highway on a
well-laden GPX250.

I only did the "outrigger stance" thing when I was actually riding through
bulldust beds, in first gear, at walking pace, though.


BTH

 

Nope.
Slope,dwarf,tall bike.
A lot of the damage was from straining to hold the bike upright with
just my toes,then it was all downhill--literally...(on my foot)
_Then_ the woman behind drove her 4WD into the bike--luckily she
stopped when a chain adjuster punched a hole through her bumper--no
more damage to the TA apart from the drop.
I don't _think_ she helped nudge me over first,but who knows?
Haven't enjoyed kickstarting the CT hundreds of times each day at work
and putting it onto the centrestand--in hindsight,i should've taken
four days off instead (then I could've gone for a ride...)

Incompetent Shortarse Pat

 

Nope.
Slope,dwarf,tall bike.
A lot of the damage was from straining to hold the bike upright with
just my toes,then it was all downhill--literally...(on my foot)
_Then_ the woman behind drove her 4WD into the bike--luckily she
stopped when a chain adjuster punched a hole through her bumper--no
more damage to the TA apart from the drop.
I don't _think_ she helped nudge me over first,but who knows?
Haven't enjoyed kickstarting the CT hundreds of times each day at work
and putting it onto the centrestand--in hindsight,i should've taken
four days off instead (then I could've gone for a ride...)

Incompetent Shortarse Pat

Awwww, poor Pat - I feel your pain. Oh, actually, that's MY pain.... yours
is over there behind the couch.

betty

 

No that's my pain... his is in the driveway near th 4x4 ;-)


G-S

 

My advice is; if you don't know what to do, try to do nothing.
Don't speed up, don't brake, don't lean over, don't do ANYTHING!
Just try to ride as straight a line as possible at as constant a speed as
you feel save with, and try to stay in the tyre-tracks and out of the big
drifts and big holes.
If you have to turn, try and make it as wide an arc as you can and if you
have to accelerate or brake try and do it as smoothly as you can (I'm a big
fan of squeezing the back brake as I throttle-on to keep the bike steady and
stop it jerking or porpoising during the change from braking to accelerating
[and vice versa by holding on the throttle slightly as I brake]. Most people
think this is stupid but it makes me happy.)

 

Peter wrote:

OK, sorry.... I am hopeless with names of people. :-(

The corrugated bits tend to have relatively good grip, but are
uncomfortable, so, for folk with limited experience of riding on dirt,
and a road bike, I'd recommend going slowly over the corrugations.

The smoother looking line, on the outside, tends to be loose, and
deepening gravel on that road. If you happen to have a suitable bike,
and knowledge, it is perfectly possible to ride in the gravel, and, if
you are doing that, the "gass it up" principle does apply.

Oh, do you mean to equate experience with the number of times you have
fallen off?

Elegantly put!

I have been riding for quite a long time now, and have covered quite a
long distance over the years, in all sorts of circumstances.


BTW, is that a cut'n'paste from Keith Code?

I think you'd find I'm not too bad at teaching new tricks.... and
learning some, too. ;-)

Fair enough! I was being a bit unkind there.

regards,
CrazyCam

 

Would you two cripples like some time alone?


BTH

 

In what would have been a wonderful example of irony, I almost trowelled
my truck on that very road this afternoon. The combination of a dirty
windscreen, the dead-calm air being full of dust, and the sun almost on
the horizon added up to a total loss of vision, and me only just avoiding
ending up in the ditch. As it was, I whacked the left mirror against a
sapling.

In the interests of full disclosure, while I *did* say "Fer ****'s sake!",
I didn't follow up with "Kent with his arse out![1]"


BTH
[1] http://fat.ly/r9fa4

 

That does sound somewhat like MY strategy as well. Basically - be bloody
careful! Being the chickenshit that I am on dirt, and not really having a
clue, I've taken on board a few handy hints from ppl like Lemmiwinks, and I
always remember the cardinal rule, the Prime Directive - DON'T TOUCH THE
FRONT BRAKE!

That has mostly been enough, and I've mostly avoided disaster - but not last
weekend :-(

I guess shit happens sometimes ....

betty

 

I am so glad I saw the light and got a real bike with real tyres...

I hammer the front brake

but seriously...

I did an 2 day ADV course a few weeks back and one of the exercisers
was riding on dirt, and locking the front brake and continue on riding
with the front brake locked, we did this for about 15 mins, out of the
14 riders no one dropped it, this was simply to prove that locking the
front brake on the dirt wont bring you down, also to practise in the
event of a front where lock up.

With the use of counter balancing, I can brake no problems into a dirt
corner, sure the tyres do help, but having the weight back and to the
opposite side does alot of the work

I know this doesn't mean anything to most here because most people
here are riding road bikes with road tyres and riding them on dirt is
a completely different discipline that riding a dirt style bike with
aggressive tyres

but it is amazing what a bit of proper training will do

even with a Dakar winning motorcycle with knobbies, riding it like a
road bike on the dirt road will bring you unstuck, learning to ride on
the dirt properly on any style of motorcycle will bring better
results. The biggest difference IMHO between riding on the road and
the dirt is where you position your weight on the bike, in some cases
it is the opposite.

with the skills I learnt in the course, I could quite confidently ride
any bike better on dirt than before the course, of course some bikes
better than others.

I did well over 500kms of dirt coming and going to BTs last WE and
never had a problem with traction and I do not put that down to the
bike or tyres, I put it down to the training I did a few weeks before
hand.

BTW, here is a pic of someone counter balancing and setting up for a
corner
http://www.tbam.com.au/images/stori...og/2010Blogs/TenereFrance/fq7c2784webbody.jpg

staying off the dirt is one option, being taught the ride it is
another, learning from a newsgroup IMHO is not, just too much info
that is going in different directions (including mine)

mh

 

yes it is.. its balancing the bike that is leaning one way by learning
to the other..

but it doesnt, because your body weight couter reacting the bike
wanting to fall

once the bike leans to one side, it naturally turns

I dunno, I just do what the instructor taught me a few weeks back and
it works, I also remember TimTim and Dave talk about it and doing it
over in Europe, learn to the outside of the turn and drop the the bars
into the turn..

it works, I now about at least 30% more confident on the dirt because
of it

I should have said on the tyres

simple, there is less sideways force and more downward force on the
contact patch.. on a dry road you do not usually out perform the the
grip level, on a wet of dirt road you do. the more downward force on
the contact patch the less chance the tyre will loss grip

depends on speed, under 20kmh yes, over 20kmh the no, the principles
of how a motorcycle turns still apply, its the forces generated on the
contact patches that changes.

probably, I am no expert on the subject, just a believer

no..well yes.. but no

riding a dirt bike with aggressive tyres will bring results straight
away, but riding a dirt bike on a dirt road like a road bike on a tar
road will end in tears, you have to ride it in a different manner,
different positioning of your weight is one of the major differences

I will bet you I could ride your bike, or any bike better, with my
technique on the dirt that riding the same bike on the dirt as you
would ride it on the tar.


I know these photos are the right bike on the right surface and you
wouldn't take either to the other but look at the position of the body
dirt http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2537/3942935344_8df8c027e2.jpg
road http://www.alchemic.com/~mjerviss/class/project_2/images/motogp_rossi.jpg

I know the type of bike/tyres is key, but the type of surface IMHO
dictates how you ride the bike

mh
(all I really know is it works for me, the professional instructor and
the 13 other riders that did the course a few weeks back and I am
riding far better for it)

 

oh...now that is funny

mh

 

it would sound like crap to anyone that thinks that slowing right down
and using their legs as props as an effective way to ride on the
dirt... if I used that technique I would still be on my way home from
BTs a week later

mh
(a extra week on the bike wouldnt be a bad thing thou)