When Bigger is not Better...

Larry" the caller said over phone. "did you know your RC45 air box is
restricted?"

Who is this???

No prankster... it was my friend Stephen calling long distance from England and
he just installed a $900.00 HRC air box on his RC45 and now claims 120HP on the
dyno... mmmmm... could the stock box be modified???
http://www.vfrdiscussion.com/forum/uploads/1113861108/gallery_3131_51_178065.jpg


Stephen was right... stock RC45 throttle bodies are 46mm but the air box was
indeed restricted to 40mm... no problem... I'll bore the air box out to 47mm on
the milling machine...
http://www.vfrdiscussion.com/forum/uploads/1113861108/gallery_3131_51_12643.jpg


I drew up plans for 47mm bell mouth based on the stock 40mm bell mouths and
purchased a block of black Delrin...
http://www.vfrdiscussion.com/forum/uploads/1113861108/gallery_3131_51_61101.jpg


I hates repetitious work but I labored long hours to machine 4 each bell mouths
with my best accuracy...
http://www.vfrdiscussion.com/forum/uploads/1113861108/gallery_3131_51_60103.jpg


I love it when a plan comes together especially if it turns out perfect...
http://www.vfrdiscussion.com/forum/uploads/1113861108/gallery_3131_51_73307.jpg


Now I had an unrestricted air box with my own 47mm bell mouths... it was my best
effort to replicate HRC $900.00 wonder air box... not to mention I get to keep
my home made K&N filter whereas HRC employs a thin sheet of oiled foam and a
grill...
http://www.vfrdiscussion.com/forum/uploads/1113861108/gallery_3131_51_44329.jpg


Time to revisit my friend Dave at Chandelle Motorsports and run my mod against
my base line on the dyno... Dave wears ear defenders not to block Mr.RC45's
glorious growl but to block my endless V4 yammering...
http://www.vfrdiscussion.com/forum/uploads/1113861108/gallery_3131_51_181600.jpg


Mercy!!! no joy... I lost 1.8HP... bigger is not better... a weeks worth of work
shot down in flames... it seems Honda got the intake velocity right for a stock
pipe after all...
http://www.vfrdiscussion.com/forum/uploads/1113861108/gallery_3131_51_35549.jpg


Oh well... calling Italy... hello Mr. Termigoni??? you love V4s and I need to
open up the back door to take advantage of my front door mod... do you still
make racing 4 into 1 exhaust systems with a carbon can for the RC45???
http://www.termignoni.it/catalogo/dettaglio.php?lang=ENG&marca=HONDA

Larry L
94 RC45 #2
Have a wheelie NICE day...
Lean & Mean it in every corner of your life...
If it wasn't for us the fast lane would rust...
V4'S are music to the seat of my pants...
1952 De Havilland Chipmunk...
Yank and bank your brains loose...
http://members.ebay.com/aboutme/-xlax-/
http://home.comcast.net/~netters2/
http://www.fox302.com/index.pl?s=vg&user=netters2

 

http://www.vfrdiscussion.com/forum/uploads/1113861108/gallery_3131_51_35549.jpg


Dang Larry! thats one hell of torque curve.. no wonder you
are in love with the RC45.. thats purely awesome.

http://www.termignoni.it/catalogo/dettaglio.php?lang=ENG&marca=HONDA

The new pipe will be wonderful

Phil Scott

 

"Larry xlax Lovisone"

Dip shit...I only say that because you are a smart
man and KNOW BETTER than to make a HUGE change
like that. What you should have done is make
several sets of bell mouths in 1mm increments WITH
one set of length adapters in 2mm increments...and
tried each set of bell mouths with all the length
changes. That or get dimensions from your buddys
HRC airbox. If you you've the money for Dyno time
the first is the better choice...

SNIP self congratulator back slapping on great
work that accomplished nothing.

Now THAT is a smart choice...what did HRC do? Just
askin, can you weld Ti? Remember though, what
works on the track often sucketh ass on the
street.

 

A few observations:

A. Damn, what are you doing with 48 weaselly pounds of torque? You
know that the Kawa 636 is right up your tailpipe right Lar? And that
real 750s surpassed this figure many moon ago.

B. Your friend spec'd 120 horses but didn't say what happened to the
rest of the curve. Bigger intake typically spells peaky delivery. You
brag about your usable power and dump on inlines for top end only
delivery. So why are you trying to make your bike more inlineish?

C. Are you THIS retarded? Opening up the intake will at the very least
require some serious fuelling mods. Did your buddy Dave hook up a gas
analyser and dump in the additional required amount? Do they even make
a PC or way to mod the RC45's fueling?

D. Swing a leg over a ZX-10R already. Now that's the scariest Kawasaki
I've ridden ever since Andy B insisted I ride the no steer bike. You
keep thinking it's only a teeny 600, being that it's one pound lighter
than. And the motor keeps reminding you it isn't at the most
inopportune of moments!

E. Getting a real bike with real power seems like a better move than
chasing your tail around like a silly little doggie. How much money
are you gonna hafta spend to get 160rwhp out of poor Mr. RC45? And
what's up with riding a MALE motorcycle anyways? Is that why you're
afraid to go hairy chested brute on the Zixxer?

 

You don't understand. Larry is in love with the V4 power delivery
characteristics, and also can't help massively modding his bikes...

Power delivery is also vastly important. Why do you think yamaha has
been succesful with the Growler? If Larry's going to get a new
sportbike, it won't be a standard I4, but it could be a Growler.

Although, Larry, did you see the latest Bike, where they took an R6,
put in a MILDER cam, power commander, and changed out the sprocket?
They lost <4 hp on top, and gained 10%+ power/torque everywhere else.
32 out of 34 riders vastly prefered it. So beware going for peak
power.

 

Growler.

ezzactly. also 120 hp is about twice what anyone except a
world class pro road racer can use on the back roads. And
that power comes to 80!!! ft lbs of torque from 2.000 rpm to
2,500 !!! Now thats way more than world class hot. Thats
power you can comletely put the ground..with the pulse band to
keep the tire patch stuck to the road.

Its not hard to see why Larry loves that thang... there is
nothing elses ive seen in the world even close.

can you point me to a torque curve on the 'growler' whatever
that is? If it has the torque curve Larrys RC has Id be
looking at one fast.

Peak power is only useful to a handfull of top pro racers and
even then only on tracks with long straights...

everywhere else as you are hinting...its the torque curve that
puts the power to the ground thats solely primarily
relevant...next is the power pulse, dead band, at the rear
wheel (the reason why the underpowered ducati wins on tighter
tracks against the much more powerful i4's)


Phil Scott

 

Check out the torque curve on a Triumph Triple, Phil.

 

["Followup-To:" header set to ba.motorcycles.]

Trim your replies, please. Thank you.

nb

 

It's even more awesome on the seat of your pants...

Larry L
94 RC45 #2
Have a wheelie NICE day...
Lean & Mean it in every corner of your life...
If it wasn't for us the fast lane would rust...
V4'S are music to the seat of my pants...
1952 De Havilland Chipmunk...
Yank and bank your brains loose...
http://members.ebay.com/aboutme/-xlax-/
http://home.comcast.net/~netters2/
http://www.fox302.com/index.pl?s=vg&user=netters2

 

Make that 49.9 pounds of *phat* torque... inlines are weaselly...


So why are you trying to make your bike more inlineish?

Even when Honda raced the RC45... it's 191 RWHP was more linear that stinky
inlines of lesser output...

Yes... Dave did hooked up the gas analyzer and commented that the fuel air ratio
wasn't bad at all.. but no one makes a Power Commander for the RC45... it's not
a high volume street bike... you're suppose to add the HRC bolt on goodies good
for 165 RWHP...

California roads have no shortage of the latest Motor of Deaths Wonder Bikes...
they are nice but they still get in my way out in the bendy bits...

Mercy Pudknocker... Keith Code's no steer bike wasn't that bad...

Who needs 160 RWHP to go quick??? but HRC will sell you 10K worth of bolt on
goodies go for 165RWHP...

He gots more balls than you and I put together...

Larry L
94 RC45 #2
Have a wheelie NICE day...
Lean & Mean it in every corner of your life...
If it wasn't for us the fast lane would rust...
V4'S are music to the seat of my pants...
1952 De Havilland Chipmunk...
Yank and bank your brains loose...
http://members.ebay.com/aboutme/-xlax-/
http://home.comcast.net/~netters2/
http://www.fox302.com/index.pl?s=vg&user=netters2

 

Jr. Pudknocker had a chance to experience Hondas best V4 power delivery... but
he was too tired...

Larry L
94 RC45 #2
Have a wheelie NICE day...
Lean & Mean it in every corner of your life...
If it wasn't for us the fast lane would rust...
V4'S are music to the seat of my pants...
1952 De Havilland Chipmunk...
Yank and bank your brains loose...
http://members.ebay.com/aboutme/-xlax-/
http://home.comcast.net/~netters2/
http://www.fox302.com/index.pl?s=vg&user=netters2

 

The SV is impressive and its torque curve is only 10% as steep
as your RC... it must be awesome indeed. Is there anything
that comes close in todays street offerings?


Phil Scott

 

You mean the 600 i4 torque curve is that steep as well? my
sv's is about 45 degree angle... the RC's is almost vertical
and low in the rpm range too...

the 600 i4 doesnt start pulling at 2k what? more like 5k?.
and then the torque curve more or less follows the HP curve.
Notice with the RC45 that the torque curve preceeds the HP
curve and is almost vertical from 2k to just 2.5k.


Phil Scott

 

Yes... please do... ;-)


http://members.cox.net/stkeith/Wolf_&_NewFuel11NewIgn4_tune.gif

Clearly there's a little work to do on the air/fuel ratio between 5k and 9k
rpm, but it's pretty damn close to good!

Steve

--
Steve Keith - in reverse order of procurement:
2002 Blue Daytona
1983 GS1100ED (GS2) - eBay, rode it to PHX from San Jose via the PCH -
sweet!
1993 GSX1100F Fat Kat
1983 GS1100ED (GS1)
My wife says: "Buell rhymes with Stool"

 

So it's torque you love? Visit this page and click on "Triumph Rocket
III", right at the bottom.
<http://www.jardineproducts.com/streetbike/dynocharts.php>

 

Thanks for the link.

the torque curve *is very good, almost as good at the RC45 and
5 times better than my SV650... no wonder the triple is liked
by so many people.

Phil Scott

 

Yes I saw that.. thanks... great torque curve indeed. No
wonder to many people like the bike.

Phil Scott

 

On Thu, 21 Apr 2005 18:30:01 +0000 (UTC),

True. But he's also trying to sell it as superior to all else when the
dyno run clearly proves otherwise.

I mean I love my Triple. But I know it's a dog in comparison to other
performance machines.

Screw that. Check out the motoman website. Where he closes up the R6's
ports to the tune of 30%, gains a table flat torque curve everywhere
and dynos 113 rw ponies.

 

Tell that to Valentino.

About ten more than a current literbike. Both in ponies and thousands
of dollars!

And you STILL don't have the low end grunt of a modern liter cause
you've shifted all the powerband up top.

I'd rather have the three literbikes that my $30k buys.

Yes but that still doesn't answer my question. Why do you like playing
with them?


PS
Saw an RC30 at a recent bike nite. Maybe I bring the camera next time
and snap some shots of me peeing on it.

 

New fuel? New ignition? Wotcha using? Tuneboy or PC?

I note you're getting rich in the upper reaches. I aimed for 13:1 all
around and it pulls like a beast. You also need a little more juice in
the 2-3k range. You're welcome to try out my map for shits if you want
it.