[QUOTE] snip> Not at all - the better units are just that - better. You could try one and see what I mean, or you could continue to pontificate from a position of ignorance - both are equally amusing stances, from my POV at least :) [/QUOTE] When you buy a bike specific satnav you get a waterproof unit, helmet connection and glove friendly operation. The XL Europe that I've got costs £166, 4.3" screen on this one. The Rider Europe costs £391, 3.5" screen on this one. I only need a satnav on a bike if I'm away in Europe and if I'm over there I use a tankbag and I've yet to have a problem with the unit getting damp. I don't want to hear a machine bitching at me, I don't want to have my phone distracting me and I'm just about capable of setting where I want to go before I leave. Pikey? If you say so.