WSB Brands Spoiler

Discussion in 'Motorcycle Racing' started by Julian Bond, Jul 27, 2003.

  1. Julian Bond

    Julian Bond Guest

    Well it looks like the best riders in probably the best national series
    in the world are better than the WSB best.

    Hmmm. Sorry about that, I just couldn't resist it. But really with
    Shakey, Reynolds, Walker, Toseland, Emmett, Hodgeson all up at the front
    it could have been a BSB race. And Bayliss coming in 3rd as well in
    MotoGP it was a pretty good weekend for BSB regulars and past winners.

    It was particularly good though to see Shakey get the double and
    Reynolds push him all the way in the second race. If nothing else it was
    great racing and a great crowd. I've been rooting for Shakey ever since
    he started as a staff writer at Fast Bikes and especially since the
    video of him powersliding a 'Busa in the south of France. It was great
    to see him finally come of age.

    Distinctly puzzling was that Kagayama wasn't faster. It'll be
    interesting to find out what the story was there.
     
    Julian Bond, Jul 27, 2003
    #1
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  2. Julian Bond

    Steve Guest

    Don't apologise for stating the truth Julian. It had to be said.
    I thoroughly enjoyed a great weekend's racing, regardless of there being two
    all-British rostrums. For me, it was probably the best meeting this year so
    far. Shakey was fantastic and surely has to get a WSB ride soon! With
    Monster Mob of course.
    Yeah, but I wanted to see JR take one race. He's such a likeable and modest
    bloke and still as fast as anyone... what a talent he must have, to be able
    to ride one of those so disadvantaged Suzukis, beating the world's best SB
    riders on their so unbeatable Ducatis!
    Agreed. Mr Blinkered-Big Mouth must have near choked on his Big Mac..
     
    Steve, Jul 28, 2003
    #2
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  3. Julian Bond

    Will Hartung Guest

    I'm certainly not going to rain on any of the BSB fans, as they really had a
    good day Sunday. But, you have to wonder what is wrong with WSB today, with
    a Suzuki taking poll for two straight events. ;-)
    The funny thing about Nicky, is that he gets a lot of "air time" from the
    commentators, though he doesn't get much screen time. They pretty
    consistently talk him up, even moreso that Edwards. This could all be
    marketing, perhaps Honda gives the announcers bennies to keep their rider in
    the limelight. It's a shame we missed his finish with Capirossi.
    It seemed to me that the first race was one of the closest this year when
    Kurtis lost it (you didn't spill your beer when that happened, did you Mark?
    ;-)).

    I can't say how disappointed I am that Eric is done. Just from the fluke of
    the circumstances that brought it here. I haven't heard all of the details
    about his injuries. They mumbled something about him getting an operation on
    his wrist. I hadn't heard he'd hurt his wrist, just his shoulder. With a
    month to VIR, you'd like to think he might be able to run there, but if the
    team is willing to support him, it would probably be better for him to just
    get healthy for next year and hopefully a new bike. But, it's a shame IMHO.
    If Kawi doesn't have a new bike next year for him, I dunno what he can do. I
    don't know what his contract is.

    Yates seems Angry. I don't know what is up with him recently. The shifter
    thing on the restart didn't help, but he's been getting moodier as the
    year's progressed.

    Yes, kudos to Pridmore. The concept of "competetive privateer" is a very
    interesting. It's quite a dichotomy. Does Suzuki or Honda want successful
    privateers? Does that hurt or help? If privateers are successful, then why
    have a factory team, why pour that money into it? Could the money be better
    spent helping the privateers, or do the factories simply not want to focus
    their manufacturing on making a competitive "stock" race bike?

    For example, in NASCAR, do they have "Factory teams"? Is there a Team
    Chevrolet or Team Ford? Or, are they just high level "Privateers". How does
    Erion Honda differ from Team Honda? What distinguishes Erion Hondas
    relationship from Yoshimura Suzukis relathionship?

    On the one hand, it would be nice to get more privateers, but the trick is
    to keep the whole thing at a high enough level to hopefully make it more
    than a large cluib race series. Of course, that all takes money, money, TV,
    and money. And the money simply isn't there yet :-/.
    Yeah, it was interesting to see Greg White scolding Jake Zemke for taking a
    victory lap. "You know we're on live TV" as in "You need to keep our
    schedule".

    That's somewhat laughable as Saturday was certainly not a live broadcast, as
    was made apparent by the instant restart that they cut out. So, it seems to
    me that Speed needs to decide whether to keep this live, or to just edit the
    shows into 1 hour segments. When things go well, the races can fit easily
    into a 1 hour segment. But when they go sour, they muck up the entire
    schedule. Their's enough NASCAR history that they have a good solid idea how
    long the races last, plus the races are rarely stopped, but rather slowed
    for cautions. Much more TV friendly.

    But, if Speed would just settle on a format for a time frame, perhaps set up
    for a quick editing, then the show need not be live, but simply delayed,
    say, two hours.

    That way, they can get the race, and actually get some interviews and podium
    shots at the end instead of the inevitable "We're out of time." "Good race,
    thanx team, thanx Dunlop" "Back to you Brian!" interviews. Or, perhaps
    package up some behind the scenes interview "state of the racers" stuff and
    put in into Bike Week, or whatever the new show is.

    I mean, the WSB packages we get here are obviously one hour, edited shows.
    It's pretty clear that there are no commercials, and Speed puts those in.
    They can package that up here if they basically either go with a tape delay
    and some quick editing on the fly, or simply skip even the premise of live
    broadcast and simply make it a 1 hour segment.

    Of course, I think Daytona should be live, but that's an exception. But, I
    was basically glued to the tube all day Sunday, with I guess 2 live spots
    (600 and SB) and 4 taped (250, GP, WSB x 2), and that was great. Same day
    was Good Enough for me, and it was clearly Good Enough for Speed on
    Saturday. And many folks don't get it until Tuesday, anyway.

    Anyway, enough rambling. I would like to see a 1 hour Suzuka wrap up of this
    weekend, though.

    Regards,

    Will Hartung
    ()
     
    Will Hartung, Jul 28, 2003
    #3
  4. Julian Bond

    Julian Bond Guest

    HM Plant, Monstermob, Renegade stand more or less in the same place.
    They get last year's factory bike and I'm sure they get replacement bits
    at a favourable price. And when crankcases are a consumable that's a lot
    of money. The next level down is people like ETI (Sean Emmett, that guy
    running at the back of the lead pack on Sunday). They're using
    Monstermob's last year's bikes but will still be spending large amounts
    on consumables and tuning. That's roughly equivalent to Chili and the
    NCR team. Then there's the 998R which you can buy from the importer if
    you can get on the waiting list and stump up the cash. Then you can take
    it to any of maybe 15 tuners world wide. If you spend enough money, you
    won't be that far off the others. There's a lot of people worldwide now
    who know how to make a Ducati fast.
    This year's Honda BSB team is last year's WSB championship winning team,
    but without the budget, tyres and with private sponsorship. They're also
    missing Colin Edwards, Adrian Gorst and a mechanic or two. Plater is
    trying to change a 4c riding style to work with 2c and he's a long way
    from Edwards in talent. Heckles is persevering and frequently beating
    Plater but not setting the world on fire. But I was really thinking
    further back. Heckles in WSB, Rumi at various times. Toseland in BSB
    (with Shakey? or was it Emmett?). Further back there's people like
    Crafar on private RC45s. All these people have tried to make Hondas
    competitive and basically failed. The Harris-Toseland team had the
    Factory kit and described it as a complete waste of time. They might as
    well have just tuned a stock bike off the showroom floor. For instance
    the exhaust they had built was more effective than the kit part.

    The impression I'm getting is that it's basically impossible to take a
    showroom Honda and make it competitive no matter how much money you
    spend. I don't think this is true of Suzuki, Ducati, Yamaha or Kawasaki.
    And it makes me question if there's anything left of the 500 Honda built
    for homologation in their factory race bikes.
     
    Julian Bond, Jul 29, 2003
    #4
  5. Julian Bond

    Julian Bond Guest

    Well Shakey, Emmett, Walker and Toseland all know Brands like the back
    of their hands. They've probably run hundreds of races on the short
    track and 1 or 2 weekends a year on the long track. So Shakey beating
    Walker and Toseland is pretty embarrassing for them when they're on
    effectively the same bikes.
    It's BSB I'm working from. I don't think Virgin Yamaha get much support
    from Yamaha at all. The R7s they ran and won the championship with and
    the R1s they're currently running are pretty much their own work. The
    Hawk Kawasaki team have got last year's Eckl factory bikes but I believe
    they prefer the stock frame. And the ZX7 engine is so old now that
    tuning it is well understood. The Rizla Suzukis going back well before
    Walker's battle with Hodgeson were almost entirely developed in house. 2
    years ago Shakey was regularly getting in the top 6 on a pure privateer
    Suzuki.

    The thing is the UK car and bike racing industry is huge. If you have
    the money you can get *anything* built by a large number of specialists.
    I know WCM didn't actually get to race but they built a MotoGP bike in
    10 weeks that was amazingly close to the pace. You probably couldn't do
    that anywhere else but in the UK.
    At this stage, I don't think it would matter that much. There's enough
    Ducati tuners around. And the base is good enough mainly because the
    extra tech of last year's factory bike trickles down to their production
    bikes pretty quickly. You can see a clear progression with each change
    from Replica R to SPS to S.

    Maybe this is the issue with Honda. The factory mods never make it to
    the production line because they only ever did a single homologation run
    (hmmm SP1, SP2?). And the road bike is so diluted that you can't get
    back.

    Thinks. Maybe all we need to do is reduce the homologation requirement
    for the Japanese factories to the same as Ducati and encourage them to
    do a yearly replica. I've wondered in the past why there wasn't a Chili
    replica GSXR750. I guess with the falling out there wouldn't be an
    Edwards rep.
     
    Julian Bond, Jul 30, 2003
    #5
  6. Hard to change your mind about him? Yes Bayliss and Hayden have been really
    good but who is the hero of this last race? The way Gibernau managed the
    pressure of Rossi proves he's now at the top.
    And 4 wins from 9 so far is not only the result of a golden boy with Spanish
    money.
     
    Pierre Bonneau, Jul 30, 2003
    #6
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