Yamaha FZ-6 won't start!!!! PLEASE help!!!

Discussion in 'Motorbike Technical Discussion' started by TB1181, Dec 4, 2005.

  1. TB1181

    TB1181 Guest

    first the back story....

    i recently moved across the country and shipped all of my personal
    belongings via semi trailer. in the trailer i had my motorcycle packed
    in a crate which was custom built. i went to my local dealer and they
    provided me with a metal crate that the bikes are shipped in and so i
    used the bottom metal piece where the tires slide into, and then built
    a wooden crate around that. the bike was shipped and took just over a
    week to arrive at its destination with only a few minor scuffs from
    shipping (i just bought it brand new in april, but i am still happy
    that there were only a few scuffs).

    now the problem...

    when i tore open the crate to pull my bike out i noticed a small amount
    of fuel on the floor of the semi trailer, juste below the engine. (note
    that i shipped the bike with almost a full tank of gas - yes, i know
    that was stupid) when i try to start my bike it simply will not turn
    over. i don't know anything about how the bike works mechanically and
    have had my dealer do the servicing for oil changes and what not so i
    am really new to this. i have not checked my spark plugs, but today
    when i tried starting it the damn thing made a "popping" sound. it
    wasn't a back fire, but more of an electrical pop. (sorry i cannot
    describe it better) i am at a loss of what i should do and would like
    to exhaust all possibilities before taking it to a dealer in my new
    town. any help/advice would be VERY much appreciated...
    TB1181, Dec 4, 2005
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  2. TB1181

    fweddybear Guest

    Have you checked to see if the tank had ANY gas left? Its possible that
    all the gas drained out and al lyou need to do is fill the tank with
    gas..... also did you turn the fuel knob to off?? I am sure it is something
    simple since it was working before you crated it....

    good Luck..

    fweddybear, Dec 5, 2005
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  3. TB1181

    G C Guest

    I sure hope the gas didn't all end up in the cylinders and crankcase and
    when you turned it over the engine hydraulic locked. This will break
    some very expensive parts. Is the gas still in the tank, or did it
    migrate? If you remove the plugs and it sprays gas all over when you
    crank it, that is a clue. How is the oil level in the sight glass?
    Normal or all thin and full? Sounds like dealer time to me if you aren't

    Gopher Greg
    '77 CB750K Stock '78 CB750K AHRMA
    '00 ZG1000 Stock '96 Ducati 900SS Former track bike
    '01 GSXR750 Current race bike
    **********pull 'mychain' to reply***********
    ("I've abandoned the idea of trying to appear a normal, pleasant person.
    I had to accept myself as I was, even if no one else could accept me.
    For the rest of my life I would continue to say precisely the wrong
    thing, touch people in the raw and be generally unpopular. I had a
    natural gift for it" W. F. Temple)
    G C, Dec 5, 2005
  4. TB1181

    TB1181 Guest

    the tank still has the same amount that it had before it was shipped.
    only a VERY small portion was on the floor of the semi trailer. the oil
    level is fine too. i checked and it is normal range so the reservoir is
    not filled with gas.

    i was very concerned about the gas getting into the cylinders though.
    that was my biggest fear after i spoke with my dealer back home. but as
    it stands now it may just need to have the battery charged. that is my
    goal this weekend.
    TB1181, Dec 5, 2005
  5. TB1181

    CK Guest

    Yannow, I absolutely *despise* how complicated motorbikes have become.
    They are supposed to be very simple machines, they really don't need
    all this electronic complication, IMNSHO.

    Your machine probably has Yamaha's Frankenstein-designed electrical
    system. It's their revenge for Hiroshima and Nagasaki, you see.

    There is probably a dual function relay under the left side cover. One
    half the relay is a master power relay and the other half is a starter
    enabling relay, so you should normally hear a "click!" when you turn
    the key on. The relay is actually clicking twice, if the "safety
    interlock" switches are in the right position.

    Some Yamahas (like mine) will operate the electric fuel pump for 5
    seconds after the key is turned on. There are 5-second and 30-second
    timers built into the electronic engine control unit.

    The solenoid type electric fuel pump on my machine then has to get a
    signal from the ignition pulser coils to the digital ignition control
    unit to keep running. Your machine probably has a rotary fuel pump that
    hums or whines instead of tick-tick-ticking.

    Your machine is fuel injected. No gasoline should be pumped to the
    engine unless the
    electronic engine control unit gets a signal from a sensor in the side
    of the crankcase that the crankshaft is rotating.

    There's an electric fuel pump that feels a fuel "rail" that provides
    pressure to the fuel injectors and returns unused fuel to the gas tank.

    The pump is probably in the bottom of the gas tank and you should
    probably be able to hear it humming as it rotates when you push the
    starter button.

    There are also at least three "safety interlock" switches. In their
    omniscient benevolence, the gooberment powers that be have mandated
    that your engine should stop running if you put the transmission in
    gear with the sidestand down, and that the starter should not operate
    either if the tranmission is in gear with the side stand down. So there
    is a neutral switch and a sidestand switch. The sidestand switch might
    have dirty contacts, so you should operate the sidestand up and down
    several times and also operate the shift lever from first through
    neutral to second and back several times.

    The transmission doesn't like to shift gears with the rear wheel not
    turning and the engine not running, so the drill is to push the
    motorcycle back and forth six inches or so while operating the lever.

    And the third switch is on the clutch lever. The starter solenoid
    enabling relay won't close unless the sidestand, neutral, and clutch
    "safety interlock" switches are all in the right position when you want
    to start the engine, and then when the starter does turn the engine
    over, the pulser coil in the side of the crankcase senses that the
    crankshaft is moving and sends its signal to the electronic engine
    contol unit which in turn sends a signal to the fuel pump relay so the
    fuel pump will run!

    What a ridiculous level of complexity for a mere motorbike!

    The fuel inectors are electrical solenoid valves that open a certain
    amount every time they open and the length of time they stay open is
    determined by a program in the integrated circuit chip in the EECU. The
    program is modified by various sensors. Like the water temperature
    sensor will tell the EECU that the engine is cold, and the EECU will
    operate in "open loop" mode, which makes the injectors stay open

    Nevertheless, the engine still might get flooded on the first few
    revolutions after the starter begins turning the engine if the charcoal
    canister is flooded. Your description of
    finding fuel under the motorbike makes me suspect that the canister got
    flooded and excess fuel dripped out the bottom.

    The canister is part of the evaporative control system. Normally it
    stores gasoline fumes until the engine is started and then the vacuum
    in the intake tract sucks the fumes in.

    But, if the gas tank is full as you said and the motorcycle is being
    shipped in a hot trailer or the trailer is bouncing a lot you would get
    more evaporation than normal and that could flood the canister.

    I would recommend removing the spark plugs and cleaning them and
    turning the engine over with the starter for about 15 seconds to blow
    any excess gasoline out of the cylinders. You might also track down the
    evaporative control system hose and see if there is gasoline in it. It
    probably comes to the injector throttle body from underneath.
    CK, Dec 5, 2005
  6. TB1181

    Battleax Guest

    Yea Krusty, you need a proper education to understand these modern concepts.
    Again, you've gone off on a completly useless tangent for what is simply a
    dead battery
    Battleax, Dec 5, 2005
  7. TB1181

    CK Guest

    How do you *know* that for sure? When inexperienced newbies say that
    their engine "won't start". or that it "won't turn over", how do you
    know that they really mean that the starter won't crank the engine?
    Should I say, "Do you mean that (a) the starter doesn't go
    ying-ying-ying-ying, or do you mean that (b) the engine doesn't go

    Newbies use "start" and "turn over" interchangeably and you can't
    really tell what they mean. And, it just may be a safety interlock
    switch problem or that the KILL SWITCH is in the OFF position. I
    neglected to mention that one.
    CK, Dec 5, 2005
  8. TB1181

    Frank Guest

    Recently had the same problem with my bike sitting in the garage. The
    petlock leaked, filled one cylinder with enough fuel that it wouldn't
    turn over. I'm not inexperienced, so in my case "wouldn't turn over"
    means "starter wouldn't turn it." ;o) It just wouldn't compress it.
    I got off lucky in that nothing broke.
    Pull all four spark plugs, put it in high gear and turn it with your
    rear wheel -- IGNITIION OFF. You'll probably see fuel evacuating
    through the spark plug holes. If you do, go ahead and change your oil
    and filter -- it's probably contaminated with fuel. My oil level
    didn't rise, but it had a distinct odor of gasoline.
    Frank, Dec 5, 2005
  9. TB1181

    TB1181 Guest

    i appreciate your help and explanation. my guess is that it is a dead
    battery but i will be checking the spark plugs this weekend as well.
    when i turn the key on (and kill switch) i get the normal fuel pump
    sound and all that jazz. but when i press the starter button it makes
    its fun little sound but the engine just doesn't start. i will let you
    all know what i find out this weekend.

    thanks for thelp AND the info!!!
    TB1181, Dec 6, 2005
  10. TB1181

    CK Guest

    So, you are saying that the starter is actually cranking the engine (it
    goes ying-ying-ying-ying), but the engine never starts and runs on its
    own? It's possible that the battery is so low the ignition system and
    the ECU don't work right because of the low voltage.
    CK, Dec 6, 2005
  11. TB1181

    fweddybear Guest

    And when you take your finger off the start button, does it sound like
    it comes to a screeching halt, like a few gears finally grabbed each other??
    If so, then it sounds like you have a broken starter clutch or one that has
    something sheared off....you can check this by, well if you don't have a
    manual and aren't really mechanically inclined, I would take it to a dealer
    or mechanic that knows how to fix it....

    Good Luck...

    fweddybear, Dec 6, 2005
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